This Week in Bad Twitter

July 16th, 2016 | by mike (in boston)
This Week in Bad Twitter
business of sports
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image credit: the Atlantic

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by TSM and mike in boston

 

We preempt our usual coverage to bring you another edition of THIS WEEK IN BAD TWITTER. It's kind of a dead time in sports right now so the media personalities are a little bit desperate for content. When that's the case you end up with weeks like this one. On to the card …

 

Shoalts v Cox

 

Leading things off we have Damien Cox calling out Globe & Mail media writer Dave Shoalts for bias. This is nothing new for Constable Cox, who has gone after TSN and others for what he perceives as shilling. Damien's twitter has been on lockdown since he Kypper'ed himself so we have reposted most of exchange below. 

 

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If you had trouble following along the sequence seems to be:

 

  • Shoalts writes article about Rogers Sportsnet v TSN and the bad hockey ratings at the former, leading to high profile terminations last month

 

  • Shoalts writes article about TSN personality Jeff O'Neill 

 

  • Cox gets upset that Shoalts didn't declare that he works for Bell

 

  • Shoalts points out that Bell sold stake in Globe a year ago

 

TSM Takes:

 

  • I (Jonah) think this was actually pretty interesting banter between two veteran writers in the business.  As I said on Twitter at the time, I don't think anyone was offside per se, nor was this overly personal or inappropriate.  Shoalts is spending more and more of his time on the media beat and that draws the attention of those in the business.  Many choose to reach out privately to those of us who cover the business while others use social media to publicly comment.  There is nothing new to Damien's comment on the lack of disclaimer by Shoalts; we've seen and heard it before.  In fairness to Shoalts he's recently done not one but two exposes on Bob McCown which were more similar to this piece on O'Neil.  The question I would ask is whether or not the article would have changed if any type of disclaimer where given.  Personally, I think not, but that's just one opinion.

 

  • I (Mike) don't believe for a second that Cox didn't know that Bell is no longer a part owner of the Globe, so that was merely a pretext to take a shot at Shoalts, and indirectly at O'Neill and TSN. For those of you paying attention, this all coincides with Cox being relieved of his duties at HNIC and being shifted over to being Bob McCown's sidekick for 40 weeks a year. In other words, Damian was taking shots at the radio show that is his direct competition (at least until Bob retires). He knows what he's doing. 

 

  • This marks a return of Cox 1.0 … For a while Damien was playing nice on Twitter and on the radio. Apparently that phase is over. Let's just hope he stays away from lakes in Bancroft.

 

Barry Davis v Twitter

 

Barry Davis is a lovable addition to the Jays broadcasts. He does occasional on-field interviews, reports from the stands, and just generally complements the family friendly feel good vibe that characterizes Sportsnet's Jays coverage. So readers were surprised when he weighed in on the Tenors with this take:

 

barry

 

At the same time, Hazel Mae (with whom Barry shares a job) was tweeting this:

 

 

Lots of others also piled on:

 

 

 

 

Barry chimed back in to clarify his take:

 

 

In case you didn't quite catch the implicature there, Barry is claiming that he had no idea what the Tenors did because he missed the lyric change and All Lives Matter sign. Therefore, he can't be accused of supporting the casual racism of All Lives Matter.

 

This is a fine attempt at a defense — certainly more credible than claiming he was hacked — but it does lead to the question what exactly he was trying to say in his original tweet. If he missed the original incident what was he "not offended" by? Further, why did he take to Twitter to immediately support something he missed? Seems a little confusing.

 

TSM Takes:

 

  • I (Jonah) think this is pretty simple; if you are going to tweet out about something going on without all the information you'd better be prepared for the instant sh!t storm or be prepared to retract or delete the tweet.  I am not going to delve into the issue of the Tenors or the larger one at hand except to say that we live in a very challenging time with regards to hate.  Social media, good or bad, has given everyone a voice and that has forced us all in to a difficult position of having to listen to everyone else's opinion.  This is a significantly charged area so if you are going to wade into it you'd best be prepared for the good and bad that follows.

 

  • Also, I've written this as recently as last week, I think Barry does a good job and I respect the perspective and tone he brings.  Personally, I think he could have handled his tweets better, but I recognize that sometimes it makes the most sense to just leave things alone.

 

  • Both John Lott and Richard Griffin took shots at Barry over the course of the last year, essentially accusing him of being a mouthpiece for the organization. I (Mike) thought both attacks were needless, as no one is going to mistake what Barry does for journalism. I hypothesized at the time that maybe there was some personal issues with Barry behind those shots. The bad judgment displayed throughout this incident lends some evidence in that direction. 

 

  • With Hazel encroaching on Barry's job, this was not a good time for this gaffe. 

 

Rosie DiManno vs Ladies at the Lake

 

Nothing is more Canadian than celebrating summer by putting your feet in the water of one of our thousands of gorgeous lakes. While owning a cottage is mostly a privilege of the wealthy, AIrBnB and Craigslist have made it the case that most of us can afford to enjoy to spend some time on the lake with the family. But with so many people out there trying to have a good time, conflict is inevitable. Star columnist Rosie DiManno apparently spent some of her dock time decking another woman:

 

 

 

She is of course innocent until proven guilty. If this goes to trial she will have expensive lawyers who will give her expert counsel. In the meantime, we here at TSM have some legal advice: DON'T TWEET ABOUT YOUR CHARGES

 

 

Of course, not saying things that might come back to hurt you has never been one of Rosie's strengths:

 

 

TSM Takes:

 

  • I want to know what respectable publication allows a front page appearing columnist to tweet out what she did to Warmington and keep their job. (Jonah)

 

  • She lost her cool but gained an assault charge. (Mike)

 

Miscellaneous Tweets

 

(Mike) I'm not sure if this is good or bad but it is hilarious. There is no more predictable yet reliably funny tweet than the Bruce Arthur Fuck You tweet ™. Whether it is about terrorism, American politics, Steph Curry, or the Oscars, you can bet Bruce is going to tell someone or something to Fuck Off. Here's a challenge. The next time something of note happens in the world, see if you can beat Bruce to the punch using the hashtag #BruceArthurSaysFuckYou

 

 

(Mike) Don Cherry weighed in on the Tenors by saying that "left-wing weirdo's" would be happy about this. I couldn't even begin to try to recreate the train of thought that led to that conclusion. I would say "stick to sports" but Don is pretty irrelevant in that domain as well. The good news is that Rogers signed him up for another two years of being a national joke. Sorry to those who lost their jobs on HNIC.

 

 

(Mike) Steve Simmons took a strong stance against media lobbying for Michael Saunders to make the All-Star Game. It was notable that TSN affiliated journalists and radio hosts refrained from tweeting out the Saunders hashtag. I have no problem with cheering in the press box as long as one doesn't try to pretend this won't affect objectivity. The fact that Jamie Campbell interviewed Chris Colabello about his PED suspension one week and wore the Saunders t-shirt another week shows the tension. If you want your journalistic work to be credible you have to forego cheering for players to make the All-Star Game. One or the other. Your call.

 

 

Bonus – Jonah's CFL thoughts

 

The Argos took a bullet from the crowd size, more like lack of it this past week at BMO.  I know we generally tackle just the media side here but allow me to rant a bit.  Look, if you are a die hard CFL fan I am not talking to you.  I have respect for you and your dedication you are not the problem; you also are not the rule but the exception.  So please don't add comments on how great the games are and how much you love them.  The issue is the greater audience at large simply isn't there in the GTA right now.

 

So, I want to know who the !@#@!# thought that moving to BMO alone would draw the fans out.  Years and years of damage has been done to the CFL brand in Toronto.  Moving to a shiny new stadium isn't enough.  This is akin to turning the Titanic. As a father of two kids, the competition for our entertainment dollar is significant.  I need a compelling reason to go anywhere with my free time and disposable income.  Neither of my kids, both of whom love sports and going to games have any interest in the Argos or the CFL for that matter.  That's not me knocking or bashing the game or the league.  That's a fact of what years of mismanagement on the marketing side have done in this city.  The younger generation don't know and don't care.

 

I know given the rich tradition this will offend many, but remember my caveat above about this not being directed to die hard fans- the CFL/Argos need to adopt a minor league mentality in the GTA.  Don't worry about the on field product at all right now.  You need dirt cheap FUN games where the on field part is secondary.  4 tickets, 4 hot dogs, 4 drinks and 2 popcorns for $40.  With great entertainment in and around the game. That's how you build the fanbase in this market.  It's the Hanson brothers at the Marlies game mentality you need.  I know, you risk pissing off the die hards but, if you can't survive with the current # of die hards and the odd person showing up out of curiosity then you need to change the model.

 

The "if you build it they will come" mentality is so misapplied here.  It presumes thousands of people were staying away simply because of the venue.  Sorry folks, I don't buy it.  The Argos don't register on most people's lists of possible things to spend their time or money on in the GTA.  The only way to do that is to make it an event you want to be at all the time.   They need to get on as to remember predictable schedule and then offer over the top bang for the entertainment dollar.  The argument against is that there is more to success than young families.  I hear you and agree.  All I am telling you is that the Argos have lost generations of potential fans that they likely wont be able to re-attract.  It's a far better investment in going after young families and kids then the 18 + market who have already moved on.

 

I assumed the media especially would be taking a crawl, walk run approach to the Argos and BMO however the piling on this week has suggested otherwise.  If done properly and patiently it can happen.

 

—-

 

thanks for reading … 

Jonah & mike

 

 

95 Comments

  1. AP says:

    I am VERY disappointed in Damien Cox spewing lies on Twitter. I think regular folk count on media providing facts. Sometimes media makes a mistake. But if you’re saying he knows there’s no Bell ownership of the Globe, but he’s telling readers there is, that’s irresponsible.

    I think Barry Davis got caught up in his role as Blue Jays management defender. This was the all-star game, but he would have heard negativity from fans and quickly threw out that he wasn’t offended. He didn’t say he agreed. Just said he could move on to the exciting game. Little did he realize his peers were not just offended, but were stating it online. If he got the memo he would have said the same. He’s a dummy. But I don’t think he was actually trying to be political.

  2. Rob J says:

    Great point on the Argo situation re: ticket prices. That factor got lost in the ‘venue, traffic, heat, day-of-the-week’ excuses.

  3. Steve Jones says:

    Social media, as it relates the press corps, is solid proof that editors do have a role. Cox not only got his facts wrong, he also launched a baseless thin skinned attack against a writer for zero cause. It doesn’t surprise me, Cox has a history. What I can’t fathom is the rationale. I read the Shoalts piece and thought it was nothing but a puff profile of a guy who had become a pretty high profile media personality. It will be said a million times here, but really, anyone at SN who doesn’t see the inherent property/personality bias there is deaf and blind. But ultimately who cares. Except it does give pause to laugh at the inability of seasoned media types edit themselves.

    On the Barry Davis front I guess it’s surprising a guy would tweet about something he clearly didn’t have full knowledge of. More surprising is he was hurt by all the blow back. Geezuz, it’s Twitter, what does he expect. Particularly when he had the misfortune of getting wrong a story that is about a rather heated social issue. Should I mention that editor thing again? Finally isn’t Barry just this generations Fergie Oliver? Can he cook?

    Rosie. LOL. That Warmington comeback is priceless.

    Cherry. Clueless as usual. I hope when he goes they replace him with an animatronic Cherry voiced by Gilbert Godfried. I’d watch that.

    Aggoooos!!! I have to hand it to the tone deaf, out of touch brass in the HQ. Could the COO have sounded any more arrogant on the ticket pricing issue. They obviously thought the move to BMO would do what the move in Montreal did. Which meant they did nothing else to motivate the masses. Just a massive marketing fail. Good thing Bell is involved. That boat will be needing constant bailing.

  4. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    I vaguely remember a Seinfeld episode where Kramer admits to being a CFL fan – Maybe the Argos should jump on that as an advertising hook – It sure can’t hurt attendance-

  5. Drumanchor says:

    I don’t get it.

    Seemingly intelligent, talented, educated people who have carved out successful careers through years of solid, hard work somehow turn into characters our of Trailer Park Boys. Where is the filter? Where is the ‘sober second thought’ before hitting send?

    Of course. All superseded and made obsolete due to absolutely nothing more than massive egos.

    How mature.

  6. mario says:

    Thanks for the very good read: I did notice that in Steve Simmoms article he never once called out Bell in any regard if it was a Rogers owned team or property he would be one of the first to be pointing the finger and ripping them. At least Bob McCown is not shy in criticizing Rogers when they screw up.

  7. elevenpluseleven says:

    The journalistic integrity ship docked on the Sportsnet pier has sailed.

  8. Mike (in Toronto) says:

    Some thoughts:

    – If the Argos want to succeed in this market, they should position themselves alongside the Marlies, rather than the Jays/Raptors/Leafs.

    The CFL would never admit it, but it’s not a major-league sport and shouldn’t be priced as such. This isn’t Regina where it’s the only game in town. You cannot pretend that is elite-level competition when you can drive 75 minutes south to Buffalo and watch the NFL. The Marlies have carved a nice niche for themselves and the Argos should attempt to emulate that, rather than ridiculously attempting to brand themselves as top-tier.

    The Argos can succeed in Toronto, but not in the manner they’re going about it right now.

    – As for Cox vs. Shoalts, Damien is just being the good troll that he is. Shoalts isn’t beholden to disclosing a conflict of interest because there isn’t one anymore. I’m actually surprised that Rogers is letting Cox continue to use social media since he’s demonstrated that he doesn’t know how to in the past.

    – The Saunders pom-pom-waving was a little bush league, but I understand it. Sportsnet owns the team and every local MLB broadcast (largely) is homerism-driven. That said (and was pointed out above by Mike or Jonah), the homerism makes it difficult to turn on the objective journalist switch when you need to cover something like the Chris Colabello case. Rogers puts their personalities in an unwinnable situation in that regard.

  9. Curt says:

    For those on here that commended Cox on his “new and improved” attitude earlier this year and pointed out how refreshing it was to hear him again on PTS, well I don’t want to say I told you so, but…

    I remember saying at the time that the new Cox was all just bs. He was playing nice because he knew he had to if he wanted to continue having a job. Now, low and behold, Cox is the new permanent co-host of PTS and feels secure enough to show his true inner Cox. Careful what you wish for, I guess.

    Btw, any Rogers employee accusing someone else of bias is truly rich.

  10. Dogpounder says:

    Jamie Campbell is a journalist?

  11. GreyCountyMike says:

    As always, thank you for the great roundup of what some of us might have, at least in part, missed over the past week.

    The bottom line is this: The Toronto Sports Media industry is occupied by a number of reporters and commentators who are thin-skinned; oh, they can dish out the cheap shots with little hesitation, but when they are on the receiving end, the tough guy routine immediately turns to typical Centre of the Universe whining and sniveling. We can certainly place people like Damien Cox, Mike Wilner, Steve Simmons and even perhaps Barry Davis into that category.

    Beyond that, we have the downright defensive and huffy characters like Bruce Arthur. His punk responses to anyone who dares not agree with him shows a complete lack of integrity and, frankly, intelligence. An attitude that was once just kinda amusing for his Twitter followers has become an obsession for him and an embarrassment for his profession.

  12. Mickeyb says:

    Seems like Damien is doing the whole any publicity is good kinda thing. Maybe his way of trying to stay relevant since he was demoted to the ken Reid/ John Shannon buffoon sidekick role. Last time I listened to him he was somehow pretending to know something about hockey at last years draft with nothing more intelligent to say than “he needs to physically mature” about 18 year old prospects.

  13. Matty Zero says:

    Frig, who knew Mike Bullard was still alive?

  14. Andrew says:

    The Colabello interview with Campbell was just ridiculous. Exclusive interview, well ya…
    I get the Homerism complaints but so many broadcasts are like that, I’m watching the Nats vs Pirates game now. Just as biased. T shirts were a little much.

    The CFL has many problems but having a team play on a different night of the week every week makes no sense at all. Not sure that would help the Argos but I Wednesday night.. even though it’s the summer people still have to go work the next day.

    Great work guys, keep it up. Really enjoy reading this

  15. Huz says:

    Shows where the Rogers’ guys heads are at.

    TSN just goes about their days by putting on the best shows in the business, and all Rogers can do is complain and mention them everytime ratings are brought up.

  16. Mullet says:

    @Andrew

    Makes perfect sense having a CFL game on Wednesday night while no MLB games being played, viewer$! CFL also have several “Thursday” night games… work next day.

  17. Sam In Scarb says:

    Love the quote from Cox “Ppl see thru it”
    Well Damien people also see that you were effectively fired from HNIC.
    Since rogers is on the hook for your salary you have been placed to work 40 weeks per year as Bobcat’s dough-boy.
    Following in the epic footsteps of Ken Reid & John Shannon.
    Will Cox be the host of PTS when Bob is on holidays ??
    Hahah I don’t think so haha
    Yes,people do see thru it.

  18. Tighthead says:

    Random thoughts:

    I think Bullard is on Toronto Mike’s list of people he wants to interview. Would be an interesting subject.

    Cox comes off as completely unlikable, always. Seems to have very little in the way of good nature or an ability to laugh at himself. I think we can all do the math on the selfie tweet and it is hilarious that he isn’t a little more humbled. There is no doubt that the move from HNIC to PTS is not a lateral one. You went from national to local, TV to AM radio.

    You can never be as saddened or outraged at any current event as Bruce Arthur. I must say I get a kick out of Strachan openly ridiculing him on Twitter.

  19. RobInAurora says:

    Barry Davis is a mimbo. You can fill in the blanks here as to what Hazel Mae is because I don’t want to get blasted, but as on air “reporters” they are a matching set of lightweights.

    Cox is a bitter man. He jumped from TSN because he knew he was out of his depth there. Now that thr ship is sinking, he’s blaming everything but the lack of quality at his network of choice. He blew it, now he’s bitter. There was nothing wrong with Shoalts’ article. All it did was cast TSN’s O’Neil and Overdrive in a positive light and Cox can’t stand when that happens. especially when Overdrive is in direct competition with PTS. I gather Cox was lobbying for “equal time” but I believe Shoalts has done several columns on McCown already.

    Rosie is just a loose cannon. She seems to write about whatever she wants, sports, politics, special interests…i gather the editors are afraid of her and can’t keep her reigned in.

    • mike (in boston) says:

      Serious question: if Rosie were to be let go from the Star, where would she go?

       

      I’m sure she could retire based on the massive salary she’s pulling but I wonder if there is any other outlet that would think they could make money by adding what Rosie brings to the table. I can’t really think of one.

       

      In my opinion, the days of the superstar general columnist are behind us. It made sense back when there was money in the newspaper business, but it doesn’t really make sense in today’s media economy. Does anyone buy the National Post to read what Andrew Coyne has to say? Or Wente at the Globe?

  20. Hans says:

    MIB – could Rosie not end up on TV at a place like cp24 hosting a weekly segment or something? Has she ever done TV or has any interest in TV?

    Barry Davis being this generation’s Fergie Oliver was the best description of his role I’ve read. He’s not going to do much more than a few quick hits about the lineup and a story about a player that day. I don’t think anyone should read or expect more from him so I myself just ignore his twitter gaffe and chop it up to being another person who doesn’t get social media.

    On the Damian Cox front – isn’t he block happy on twitter as well? I think, like Steve Simmons, he sees himself as being a bigger deal and influence over the Toronto Sports scene than he actually is. I bet he pictures himself as being like those old time Montreal columnists who could topple the team with a single story. I was really hoping that the HNIC experience would teach him a lesson but it seems not to be the case. Oh well, at least he’ll keep Bob on his toes for the year or so before he retires.

  21. Curt says:

    I gave the roundtable a chance on Friday because I like Perkins and wanted to hear some British Open stories. Cox almost destroyed the show, as he usually does, by constant interruptions while others are talking, diverting a good conversation by inserting one of his half-baked, contrarian ideas (“What if they had mixed doubles in Olympic golf? Wouldn’t that create interest?”), and generally just being an annoying asshole. I laugh when he tells others not to interrupt him while he’s speaking, but has no trouble cutting anyone else off. The guy is just an arrogant and nasty piece of work that I shall go back to avoiding.

  22. Andrew says:

    Does anyone buy a newspaper anymore to read what any columinst would say these days? With so much more and sometimes better articles/opinion to read easily today I can’t see why someone would buy a newspaper for 1 specific column. If they do they probably agree with their opinion on something anyway and just want to feel good someone agrees with them.

    @mullet I get having the game when there are no MLB games being played but have them play like 3 games in a row on a Wednesday night then. They are crazy to think that no baseball on tv means those fans will automatically turn the Argos on.

  23. Original Mitch says:

    Jamie Campbell continues to certify himself as the clown of Sportsnet. I expect him to go further and further down the rabbit hole with his props and gimmicks all declaring his love for the blue jays. And yes, I am and always be harsh on Jamie, but I have my reasons 🙂
    As for Barry, I guarantee you he saw the full anthem and doesn’t quite understand the relevance of ‘all lives matter’ and just tweeted his thoughts. Then realized the gravity of the situation and retraced, sort of. He does a good job, generally speaking.

  24. Toronto Mike says:

    I recently chatted with Rosie about coming on Toronto Mike’d.

    To quote her, “I don’t talk. Just a print girl, me.”

  25. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    @Curt I agree with you about PTS on Friday – I hadn’t realized what a huge ‘listen to me’ jerk he is – He certainly almost ruined some of Perkins stories by never shutting up as I alluded to in an earlier post – How much longer do they have to pay him? Will he then be turfed from PTS? Something I have often wondered – Does Bob have no say as to who co-hosts? Does he just have to take the hand he is dealt – Cox and Read drag down the show and I just can’t see Bob letting that happen – In any event I would like a once a month two hour segment with Mccown Perkins and one other good story teller and nothing scripted and just let them wing it – To me it would be worth listening to- I’d also like to see Langford get some time – He has got to be better then Cox-

  26. billyjoejimbob says:

    Rosie has made it very clear over the years that she does not want to be “a pundit.” Simply writes.

  27. Marcus says:

    @GreyCountyMike – “The bottom line is this: The Toronto Sports Media industry is occupied by a number of reporters and commentators who are thin-skinned”
    Agree 100%.

    @Andrew – “Does anyone buy a newspaper anymore to read what any columinst would say these days? With so much more and sometimes better articles/opinion to read easily today I can’t see why someone would buy a newspaper for 1 specific column.”
    Perhaps in generations past, but there is so much quality content on-line from less “well-promoted” (I won’t say well-known) columnists that I don’t think that the print columnists have the importance, and sometimes relevance, that they once had.

    @TSM – “I want to know what respectable publication allows a front page appearing columnist to tweet out what she did to Warmington and keep their job.”
    I think that you hit the nail on the head. With Twitter and all other social media, everyone has to be their own editor, which calls to mind a quote attributed to Hunter S. Thompson: “No man is so foolish but he may sometimes give another good counsel, and no man so wise that he may not easily err if he takes no other counsel than his own. He that is taught only by himself has a fool for a master.” Perhaps that would apply to self-editing as well.

  28. Mullah_Kintyre says:

    I don’t know if anything will ever restore the Argos to something close to their former level of prominence in the city, but lowering ticket prices doesn’t always necessarily encourage more people to become interested. At one point in the last few years, they were literally giving away pairs of tickets to anyone who filled in a short online survey.

    I heard part of an interview with someone in management who at least acknowledged they have no one to blame but themselves for whatever perceived lack of success they have, which is in contrast to an element (I assume a vocal minority) of thin-skinned fans who are perpetually angry and offended at the rest of us for not paying the amount of attention the team is apparently entitled to, simply because it exists. Do you hear that from fans of any other team or sport, including ones not as popular as they used to be?

  29. edge says:

    The ticket prices for the Grey Cup game in Toronto got released, and they do surprise me. The tickets rival that of the prices of last year’s ALCS tickets. The top Grey Cup ticket is $899. Getting on the third base line next to the dugout for last year’s ALCS set you back $750. Now, I get that a series in baseball is different than a winner-take-all championship in football. But then, the current Jays are also on a different level than the Argos and ostensibly, the CFL itself. It’ll be interesting to see what the secondary market does to these prices as the season goes on and the matchup becomes clearer, as certainly some teams are better draws than others. The Argos themselves just came off a game with the building half-empty. Makes me wonder if, since Bell is doubly invested in the league by owning the Argos and holding the league’s TV contract, there are any contrarian opinions in the Bell offices. What happens if the Jays make the post-season again?

  30. Nanaman says:

    @edge
    I’m guessing the game will easily sell out. Those who priced the tickets know there is always a large contingent of followers who travel the country for the Grey Cup. Also, once the hype around the game begins, in typical Toronto fashion, the game will be the place to be (e.g. 100 the Grey Cup).

    I’m guessing they also figure that either Hamilton or Ottawa will be in the finals and thus, the locals from there will help the game sell out.

    Just my take on it..

  31. RobInAurora says:

    If they release the tickets at affordable prices, am large majority end up wirth scalpers to be sold at the prices they just announced. This step by the host team in the largest metropolitan market in the country simply eliminates the middle man. If people are prepared to pay scalpers prices, they should pay them to the team and the league. Why should scaplers be allowed to profit?

    If they tried selling Grey Cup tickets for these prices in Sasky or Winnipeg, they might have an issue on their hands. There are people from all over the GTA and people who want to and have the resources to travel to TO (or Montreal, Vancouver – and maybe even Ottawa) who will pay these prices for an event like the Grey Cup.

  32. Toronto Frank says:

    Grown men talking about Pokemon on sports talk radio … nice to see even the bosses don’t give a shit about what goes on this time of year. Click.

  33. Steve Clark says:

    Re: Media people being thin skinned.

    I disagree with this assertion. Remember that the guys you are talking about (Cox, Simmons, Arthur) get a lot of people tweeting some really stupid and terrible content back to them that can be tasteless and insulting. I get that they put themselves out there, but at the same time there is only so much vitriol that people can take. Just my take.

    As for Rosie, never had any problem with her style of writing or anything else. She’s a very good read in all subjects, and is never afraid to put herself out there. Sure, I can do without some of the anger, but she’s a throwback, and I like that. Plus, she calls out the likes of Joe Warmington, who is a bit of a tool.

  34. yaz says:

    Nice to see Greg Brady has found some voiceover work in the Wendy’s .99 cent small Frosty commercials.

  35. Mike S says:

    Two weeks ago Derek Taylor filled in on 1050 in the 9:00 AM to 1:00 PM slot and was terrible……….last week he filled in on the 1:00 PM to 4:00 PM slot and was terrible……….this week he is filling in on the 4:00 PM to 7:00 PM slot and is terrible

    He is very close to hitting for the “bad sports radio” cycle…….all he needs now is a fill in appearance on the 6:00 to 9:00 morning show

  36. RobInAurora says:

    Yeah, Derek Taylor makes Gareth Wheeler look like Dan Patrick. I refuse to listen…Mike Hogan is filling in for Richards 1 to 4 and he has Jeremy Taggart as a co-host. I like Jeremy a lot. He’s humourous and has good opinions on and has engaging stories to tell the audience. (I understand if people don’t like him. I get that…I do and that’s all that matters to me). His podcast with Jonathon Torrens is quite entertaining.

    Back to Derek Taylor: Unspeakably awful sports radio. He’s an embarrassment to TSN 1050. Brutal. He’s the guy that if you know he’s going to be at a social gathering that you’ve been invited to, you don’t go – and then you cut off the friend that invited you both to make sure it never happens again.

  37. dogpounder says:

    It was bad twitter live on the radio this morning listening to Jaques Niff Vendetta verbally abuse Ben Ennis. I thought Ennis took it pretty well. He was basically laughing it off. I probably would’ve dumped the call.

  38. yaz says:

    Cauz and Landsberg has been better than Naylor and Landsberg. Cauz keeps the show moving at a faster pace and there is a better synergy. Presumably, both Naylor and Landsberg were still under contract and ‘repurposed’ to the AM slot after being basically fired. Naylor failed at the drive home slot. Landsberg’s OTR was cancelled from the 5 PM TSN TV slot but you couldn’t call 18 years a failure. I don’t know how anyone can complain about the Breakfast Club whether you like Landsberg or not ( I do ). In depth, vigorous sports debate. Compare that to Richards formerly of that slot or Blundell down the dial.

    The 9-12 Cauz & Wheeler / Roe / Hogan / Feschuk / Taylor / Macko-Snuffleupagus slot on TSN is a tumbleweed wasteland so maybe Cauz is better utilized in the 530-9 slot.

    Wild cards this fall are the free agents that are available: Brady, Bastil, Healy. Though Healy may land at NBC. Time will tell. Brady would be a good counter to Landsberg. He can keep the pace up and is as well, or better versed in social issues as Landsberg.

  39. NefCanuck says:

    So many issues, but I think I’ll focus on the one.

    The CFL (and the Argos in particular) are merely reaping what they have sowed with how they have marketed their product over the years. Poor marketing, lousy gameplay in long spurts by the various teams in the league aside from a select few teams adds up to a product that is not compelling to a potential new fan.

    Doing exclusive deals with one television outlet (TSN), offering no online option at all with which to follow the games live (The CFL app on iOS is a pathetic mess that looks like it was coded by someone who had been given $100CDN and been told that they wanted the change back)

    The CFL needs to wake up to the new online reality, much like its “master” TSN/Bell. The mythical “new” CFL fan in the GTA isn’t going to spend upwards of $70 a month to watch the CFL, other parts of the country may still be willing, but the entertainment dollar in the GTA is stretched very thin.

    Make an online viewing package at say $100/season including the Grey Cup and I’ll bet you’d get decent numbers out of it.

    I want the CFL to survive, but frankly they have to evolve or they will cease to exist as a league of their own, perhaps in as little as a decade,

  40. Alex says:

    I wasnt aware of this before, but i guess Cauz worked on OTR with Landsberg, so them having some chemistry makes sense.

    Having Landsberg and Simmons on together is a awful lot of mean spritedness at one time.

  41. Bobby G says:

    @Steve Clark
    “Plus, she calls out the likes of Joe Warmington, who is a bit of a tool.”

    I might take Rosie in a fist fight between the two but if you actually wanted a story reported on and just just opined about, it’s Joe every time. Being a “tool,” as you called him, is always a plus for a reporter. But making a personal attack on a guy without knowing him shows where your values lie.

  42. Poker Guy says:

    Heard an interesting exchange between Ben Ennis and Joey Vendetta yesterday. Ennis had Vendetta on to comment about Phil Kessel’s after party, that Vendetta attended.
    Ennis brought up salute gate, and Vendetta defended the situation, and promptly schooled Ennis on it. Ennis came off looking very bad in my opinion, and thus showed once again, why this guy should not be on the air.

    Keep up the “good work” Ben.

  43. Mike V says:

    I guess if they do have trouble selling the $899 Grey Cup tickets, they could always use Groupon.

    Describing Joe Warmington as just a “tool” is being fairly generous to him. There are much nastier words that would accurately characterize him. His trolling antics over the death of a Star reporter that brought on Rosie’s response were absolutely despicable.

    • mike (in boston) says:

      Can we agree that some people think Warmington is a tool and others don’t and leave it at that?

      Meanwhile, does anyone here care about the Olympics? I keep forgetting those are about to start.

  44. dogpounder says:

    “..Vendetta defended the situation, and promptly schooled Ennis”

    Lol. That’s an interesting interpretation.

  45. yaz says:

    I am no fan of Ennis and but I listened to the Vendetta pod today. Yelling very loudly and sternly does not make any of Vendetta’s points any more valid. Ennis said Kessel was still partially responsible for Salute-gate and Vendetta screamed that it was a ‘media creation’ (it wasn’t) and his other defense was ‘the players don’t have to salute the fans anyway’ which, whether it is true or not, has nothing to do with Ennis’ point. Ennis just didn’t want to match Joey’s volume and degenerate into an unprofessional screaming match.

    Vendetta was at a party with Phaneuf and Kessel when Kessel had the cup here. Vendetta is the only one to get Kessel on air. He’s biased. Even if you don’t agree that he is biased, he’s an unlistenable tool.

  46. RobInAurora says:

    I can’t stand Joey Vendetta

  47. Cirroc says:

    The funny thing about salute-gate, at least to me, was that at first I was with the players. “Yeah stick it to fans and the media” I thought. But a few weeks went by and I remembered how shitty a team the Leafs were and I realized “Uhh, you probably should salute anybody that pays to watch this kind of performance.” Note: I am a Leafs fan.

  48. Red Rocket says:

    Comparing Rosie to Warmington in like comparing a Ferrari to a Corolla. While I don’t always agree with her (although I do, more often than not) her column is one of the major reasons I read the Toronto Star every day. She has the courage of her convictions (no pun intended – innocent until prove guilty) and wears her heart on her sleeve. She’s a must read, IMHO.

    Conversely, Warmington’s breathless boot-licking of Rob Ford, and slavish devotion to Ford Nation during its heyday was a true barometer of his objectivity, or rather lack thereof. It’s too bad The Sun torpedoed the on-line comments section, as the public response to his “journalism” usually was hugely critical, and rightfully so. And keep in mind, these were Toronto Sun readers, whom I make no attempt to disparage here.

    I’ll take Rosie over him any day – in a one-on-one scrap, and definitely, in print.

  49. NefCanuck says:

    Regarding Joey Vendetta, I think part of the issue is that at times when he speaks it sounds like someone portraying a character, rather than a reporter.

    At times I get this mental image of Vendetta doing his over the top sarcastic ranting while sipping on tea. He knows its a work and he doesn’t care (and neither will Rogers until he goes “too far”, where that line is, I have zero idea now with some of the things he and Blundell have said)

    Frankly in small doses he’s okay, if I think of him as a “character” but I’ll be damned if I’d listen to him full time.

  50. Sam In Scarb says:

    Watching the Blue Jays on a wonderful day outside in the sun in Toronto.
    Then there is Pat Tabler…fill in the blank
    It cost me $10.00 donation to The Hospital for Sick Children but I was able to talk the owner to put the volume on mute.
    BEST 10 bucks I have ever spent !! EVER.

  51. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    Re: Joey Vendetta – Is he the name dropping ego maniac that Blundell was fawning over this AM on Blundell & Co? I have never heard of the clown before and if I can avoid him in the future I certainly will – I got the impression he thinks the sun shines out his rectal area – I didn’t think it possible but I believe he is a bigger jerk then Wilner –

  52. Bobby G says:

    That is a pretty shallow evaluation of what happened in the Star newsroom death. The Star’s hypocrisy is stunning and they can no longer take the holier-than-thou attitude they seemed to have perfected. If you don’t like Joe Warmington, fine. But it’s pretty clear the only tools in this situation were the Star’s newsroom brass who failed everyone involved. Including their readers.

  53. Original Mitch says:

    Read up on vendetta threatening Puck Daddy at the all star game. Pretty funny and petty from Vendetta. I guess he knows a lot of people through his music thing, but only Rogers would ever find him tolerable. I happen to know he works for pennies so that’s probably why he keeps getting fill-in gigs.

  54. Mike V says:

    I didn’t say anything about The Star’s handling of this. I was talking about using someone’s suicide as your personal public spectacle to take cheap digs and float crazy conspiracy theories.

  55. Mike V says:

    Rogers has released the latest earnings. Interesting to see how the media division has done now after two years of NHL.

    2013Q3-2014Q2 (last year before NHL deal)
    Revenue: $1,735 million
    Operating Income: $134 million

    2014Q3-2015Q2 (1st year of NHL deal)
    Revenue: $2,030 million
    Operating Income: $159 million

    2015Q3-2016Q2 (2nd year of NHL deal)
    Revenue: $2,096 million
    Operating Income: $155 million

    The financials sure don’t seem to show a huge loss. Yes, I know it’s murky because the Blue Jays are included in these numbers and they have been a boost but it’s partly offset by print and non-sports conventional TV which have been declining.

  56. yaz says:

    When you’re hiring an accountant you ask them ‘What does one plus one equal?’ You don’t hire the person that answers ‘Two.’ You hire the person that says ‘What do you want it to equal?’ Rogers has a lot of the latter.

  57. Mike V says:

    Well people see what they want to see I guess.

  58. Wally says:

    Re: Argos (@NefCanuck)

    I believe the problem is even more clear than you stated (which I do agree with). I honestly believe that Toronto is not a football town. I’ve asked this countless times on different forums…

    Has anybody ever seen a person wear an Argos jersey outside of an Argos game?

    Argos marketing people say they are targeting Liberty Village as potential for new fans yet they don’t realize that TFC has marketed to those fans 10 years ago. The Argos are marketing to a group of people who didn’t want the Argos to move to BMO in the first place.

    I think the best business practice for the CFL should be to have a team on the east coast (say in Halifax) who is servicing NB, NS, PEI and eastern QC. But @NefCanuck is right with his point about TSN. They certainly will not want to have a team leave the biggest market in the country.

    At some point the excuses of poor attendance need to stop. Weekday game, poor weather, construction, bad team, yadda yadda yadda. All excuses.

  59. RobInAurora says:

    Dan Patrick. Because Garreth Wheeler

  60. Pete says:

    I never use this term about anyone, but will do so in this case — Rosie is a pig. She’s just horrible.

    Speaking of bad Twitter…is Marty York unstable?

  61. NefCanuck says:

    @MikeV

    The problem with those earnings numbers is that they are so generalized that no one has any idea of what is making money and what isn’t.

    Without that level of context, the numbers look decent enough, but I want numbers that show revenues from the NHL deal with seven Canadian teams (and Rogers has their own financial interest in at least one regarding Toronto) versus what the Blue Jays made for them last season.

    Bet *that* would make an ugly Picasso on the wall

  62. yaz says:

    Ratings down 30% since Rogers got the NHL rights. Rogers is losing money on the NHL deal. They can fudge numbers all they want for their shareholders. The NHL deal is a disaster.

  63. edge says:

    @Wally

    A lot of people have kicked the tires about a team in Atlantic Canada over the years but I don’t think the corporate support is there to build the necessary facilities. The last game out there wasn’t a sellout either.

    As for Rogers, with the Blue Jays playoff run and strong attendance and ratings this year vss the last year of the NHL with no Canadian NHL playoff teams and multiple layoffs I think it’s easy to see which property is pulling the apple cart.

  64. Lemmon says:

    I agree with people that it’s probably losing money in just a straight rights costs vs. subscriber growth and advertising money generated. That being said, I’m certain the deal doesn’t lose money in a grander sense for Rogers.

    Who knows how many customers they retain (or add) by giving them gamcentre live as a throw-in with their cable, phone or internet packages. If Bell and Rogers are offering the exact same package, but one gives you gamecentre for free, which one are people going to choose, 9 times out of 10?

  65. Mike V says:

    Nef, I know the numbers aren’t a stripped out version and the Blue Jays were the bigger driver in the division over the last year but it doesn’t mean that the NHL deal didn’t contribute as well. We know the other parts are struggling, because everyone in print/magazines and OTA broadcast TV is.

    I’ve said it before but the armchair critics of the deal look at it the wrong way. They saw $5.2B when it was announced and thought “Gee, that sounds like a really big number… they must have overpaid” not realizing that it was only double the last deal once you strip out the price for French & GCL, that’s in line with all other sport packages increases and Bell was right there as well if given the chance. They see ratings down double digits and think “they must be losing money” falsely assuming that ratings had to go up in order to be profitable and that it is the only driver of value in the deal (a lot of value is also coming from driving Sportsnet’s subscriber fees up to where TSN’s are and having control of GCL). They see jobs getting cut and think “proof the deal is losing money. They wouldn’t be cutting jobs unless it was” forgetting that profitable companies do this all the time to shore up falling margins. BTW, I am not doubting is happening in this case. Whatever internal profit targets Scott Moore had, it’s falling short and a bunch of production staff have borne the brunt of it.

    Then they see audited financial statements that don’t show the calamity they say is happening and think “doesn’t matter. Books are fudged”… that seems like a really risky and stupid thing to do for such a small % of firm revenue.

  66. Curt says:

    Mike V, the operative phrase in your original post is: “Rogers has released the latest earnings…” Rogers. Nuff said.

  67. NefCanuck says:

    @Mike V,

    You make several valid points, including that $5.2B USD number To keep it in context it was for a twelve year deal, which many folks may have forgotten given how badly ratings have crumbled the last two seasons.

    I’m more curious to know how much Rogers has had to eat on “make good ads” where (from what I understand) several prominent advertisers were promised viewer numbers, which never came to pass and Rogers then had to run additional ads “free” from those sponsors when the terms didn’t come to pass,

    So much data we are missing (and it will never see the light of day)

  68. Mike S says:

    I believe the Rogers $5.2 billion NHL contract is in CAN$ and not US$

  69. Lemmon says:

    The deal is in CAD, not USD.

    @NefCanuck

    That kinda stuff is never published. No business gives you a complete, line-by-line breakdown of all money that moved in and out of a place in a year.

  70. yaz says:

    I’m not saying Rogers’ accountants are doing anything risky and stupid outside the bounds of GAAP. But numbers are legally manipulated to provide the outcomes desired by CFOs/CEOs all the time. Different firms push those limits to different levels.

  71. Cirroc says:

    I had to laugh today when Ben Ennis was going on about how frustrated he was that Matthews wasn’t signed. Hopefully now he can conjure up some new radio material to fill his day. Also Jeff Simmons sarcastically replied to a tweet of mine today. Apple doesn’t fall far does it…

  72. dogpounder says:

    Sarcasm? The horror.

  73. Cirroc says:

    Exactly.

  74. RobInAurora says:

    Dan Patrick. Because Andy MacNamara…(It’s actually getting worse…I didn’t think that was even possible)

  75. Original Mitch says:

    The fillers (ie the future regular hosts) aren’t very strong right now in this country. Ennis, McNamara and company aren’t exactly providing a bright future for the medium. But then again, I don’t know if Rome or Patrick were as good or if they were promising when they started. I suspect they were. I suspect they had the “it” factor that today’s crop just doesn’t have. Maybe I’m wrong. Either way, they are the future hosts of PTS and the like so I’d better get used to it.

  76. Sam In Scarb says:

    @ Mitch and others..
    Names that should never be heard on again in the 4 th largest market in North America..And also not even on the 1 am-5 am shift weekends in Sudbury.
    Ennis,Wheeler,Barker & the Bride,sorry,Lansburg,Blundel,bbbblair, reid shannon and of course the king of not being able to hold a job ANYWHERE.. Cabbie.

  77. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    @sam in scarb – Sorry – I don’t get the ‘insider’ stuff – Who is ‘Cabbie’?

  78. Sam In Scarb says:

    @ Mont..Cabbie Ex of…The Score,Sportsnet,CTV and currently stealing a paycheck from TSN.

  79. Michael says:

    Vendetta hosts Rome who loves him along with Fan who have tried to hire him repeatedly…he works for peanuts? You’re a real insider Originalmitch

  80. Solomon says:

    The same seven whiners post here over and over – get a life

  81. Cirroc says:

    I tuned into Cauz and Landsberg today and it seems Landsberg, much like Skynet, has become self aware. He made many references to his own faults in behaviour. But hey, as long as he gets to talk about himself right?

  82. yaz says:

    What’s wrong with Scoleri? Joey should use his real name. What is this, the 1970s? Joey Vendetta may as well call himself Joey Jam Master or Joey Roast Beef.

  83. Sam says:

    Or Grand Master J.

  84. Original Mitch says:

    @micheal

    I don’t understand your post. Are you saying he doesn’t work for peanuts?

  85. Michael says:

    You said you knew he did & obviously you don’t Original Mitch…like most of the other “experts” on here…when you make hundreds of bucks an hour let us know

  86. Cirroc says:

    Are we talking a tin of peanuts or like a bucket where you still have to peel the peanut shell?

  87. Alex says:

    Joey Jo-Jo Junior Shabadoo?

  88. Mickey b says:

    @mikev
    Best line ever to sum up your info was when I heard beeston say something along the lines of “I can make the numbers dance off the table if you want me to”. Take whatever I say with a grain of salt as you don’t know me or know my sources but from what I’ve been told the nhl deal has worked out much below expectations. I also have heard that they knew they’d never make money off of it unless the leafs pretty much had deep playoff runs almost every year. It was always meant to be a loss leader but they didn’t anticipate it being nearly as bad as its been to this point. That being said, the Jays have saved the bacon and have been printing off money for about a year now.

  89. RobInAurora says:

    All the proof you need about how horrible the Rogers/NHL deal is: Keith Pelley quit Rogers during year 1 of the 12 year contract to take a job in Europe. This abortion was his baby and he knew there was going to be a target on his back. He got as far away from the negative press this is now generating as he could get.

    His “reputation” in North American broadcasting would now have to be be considered infamous.

  90. Bobby G says:

    If the Star handled it properly, it wouldn’t have been an issue. You think being a reporter is a clean business where everyone sips drinks and speaks in hushed tones? Good reporters rile people up but until Twitter came along, we only ever saw the finished product. Sorry it upsets your delicate sensibilities but it’s the price of freedom. Ask Rosie. And any other reporter who is worth their salt. Quit calling people names when you really have no idea what you’re talking about and stick to the sports pages where real journalism is a lost art.

  91. GreyCountyMike says:

    Anyone see the little Twitter exchange between the noted crank Dave Langford and Blue Jays’ cheerleader Jamie Campbell?

  92. Steve says:

    @GCM

    Very few people care, and those who do care do a very good job of making us not care.

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