Seen & Heard – Weekend Edition

April 30th, 2016 | by mike (in boston)
Seen & Heard – Weekend Edition
business of sports
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photo credit: here

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by mike in boston / @mikeinbostonemail

 

Good morning sports media watchers. Busy time in the sports world with everyone hard at work covering the playoffs and getting ready for the summer sports. Accordingly there is a surfeit of newsworthy items to cover and I am invariably going to leave plenty of things out. Please add whatever you saw or heard in the comments below.

 

Suggested Soundtrack: Nirvana – You Know You're Right

 

Programming note: I'm on assignment for the next few weeks so Jonah will be holding down the fort for a while. Follow me on Twitter for occasional sports media observations. Retweets are sometimes sincere.

 

Sports Radio Polls

 

The fine folks over at Platinum Seat Ghosts ran a series of twitter polls evaluating the current sports radio line-ups. Numeris doesn't publicly reveal the composition of their PPM pool nor its size but I have been told by people in the industry that the number of PPMs worn by males 25-54 in Toronto in 2015 was 287. That number covers all genres of radio: talk, traffic, music, etc. The actual number of PPMs worn by sports radio listeners is unknown, but a reasonable guess would be that at least 50% of people listen exclusively to music. Among those that listen to talk radio, many probably listen to 1010/640/CBC rather than sports. So you're probably down to 30-60 PPMs devoted to sports radio. A laughably small sample size.

 

By comparison 250 actual sports fans participated in the PSG poll. Obviously the data is going to be skewed in two ways: 1) it's a Twitter poll and that means the older demo likely is underrepresented, 2) it's a hockey blog so shows that are strong on other sports may do less well. With that out of the way, let's have a look at the results.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The obvious thing that jumps out is how different these results are from the Numeris ratings, where TSN1050 is getting trounced along most dimensions. Recent numbers show the Fan590 with 2 to 3 times the overall market share of TSN1050, and huge leads in each time slot. Here are a few take-aways from the above:

 

  • Dean Blundell is very unpopular. I have no idea how much of his score is based on the quality of the show versus his reputation as the guy who doesn't see anything homophobic about rape jokes involving gay men, or whose last show was sanctioned several times for being misogynistic. Regardless, as a morning show they have a large budget and should be able to get big guests as a way to compensate for Blundell's baggage.

 

  • Landsberg and Naylor have to feel good about beating Dean 8-2. I suspect things will be a little different when Numeris releases the spring book. But this is a good start for a show that has only been on the air for a little over 2 months.

 

  • The split between the two mid-morning show seems about right to me. Blair/Ennis/Madani/Brunt is good radio most days. Cauz + Wheeler is a good alternative option if Blair doesn't float your boat. A little something for everyone there.

 

  • Walker v Richards: I'm surprised this one isn't closer to 50-50 given Mike's more established brand as a solo host. Walker's show is much more well-rounded though, and given that hockey is on the back burner in this market until October, the results seem plausible.

 

  • The afternoon drive time results are surprising but clearly a reflection of Bob's stature among younger hockey fans. I suspect if a Jays blog ran the same poll, PTS would have fared much better. Still, TSN has to feel good that its signature afternoon show is popular.

 

Polls are fun. Let's try one:

 

 

Jonah and I are planning to do a spring "report card" post around the time the new ratings book comes out. In preparation, we are both trying to listen to a lot of radio.

 

Help us do our homework: What are some things we should listen for? What drives you crazy on either station? How do you interpret the above results?

 

Colabello Wrap Up

 

The big story of last weekend was Jays' first baseman Chris Colabello testing positive for a banned substance and being suspended for 80 games. Many people wrote about it in the papers. Here is Steve Buffery with a good analysis of why his denials ring hollow, and a good follow up article after Colabello spoke publicly (more on that in a second).

 

The Jays are owned by Rogers. Sportsnet is owned by Rogers. Sportsnet employs lots of reporters, journalists, and broadcasters to cover the Jays. The obvious question was: how they would treat the issue. Would they attack the story with the same tenacity as they would if they weren't owned by a common employer?

 

The results were a little mixed but basically positive. There was clearly no "soft journalism" mandate. Many at Sportsnet were highly critical of the player, as well as his public statements. This piece by Arden Zwelling, for example, is excellent. The one suspect decision was the following:

 

 

First, can we put the bar a little higher on using the word "exclusive"? Giving yourself a reacharound for having a fellow employee appear on your station is not a journalistic accomplishment. It trivializes the hard work that leads to real exclusive stories. Good for the people at Sportsnet who refrained from tweeting about their big "exclusive". I noticed.

 

Ok, with that out of the way I want to discuss the merits of using the perpetually youthful Jamie Campbell. Jamie did a great job and asked all the tough questions. That's not my issue. Rather, the question is why give this assignment to Jamie rather than someone else? As mentioned above, Zwelling has done exemplary work as a journalist over the last few years. So has Shi Davidi. Oh, and by the way, you also have Stephen Brunt on the roster.

 

They went with someone who is part of the Jays broadcast team instead of someone with a little more independence from the team. By using Campbell the network opens itself up to the criticism that the team is calling the shots. Why open that door if you have other options? As I have mentioned before, Brunt seems to be tragically mis-used at Sportsnet. This would have been perfect for him. He's a long time critic of baseball's arbitrary (his words, not mine) stance on PEDs. He's also the most journalistically credible person at the network. Would Colabello have appeared with Brunt? Maybe Colabello would only do it with Jamie. Who knows. But the audience was not as well served by Sportsnet as it could have been in this instance.

 

The best thing to come out of this was Campbell's appearance with Brunt and Jeff Blair on the Jeff Blair Show (April 27, Hour 2), now featuring Jeff Blair and his sensitive new voice. It was a great discussion by all three. Jamie reported several anecdotes about seeing Colabello inspect ingredient labels while in the food court, and turning down smoothies even though they looked delicious. The other two rightly jumped all over this talking point. Cheaters all look clean until they get caught, and then the plethora of drug tests they passed with flying colours don't mean anything. All you are left with at that stage are technicalities and half-truths about never "knowingly" taking anything banned.

 

It is possible that Colabello took a tainted approved supplement or that someone slipped something into his protein shake. It's just not very likely. I'm not sure I care very much. This is baseball. Cheating is part of the game's legacy. Marcus Stroman was suspended for a PED violation. Does anyone refuse to root for him on account of that? Colabello will likely re-emerge and take some more swings for the Jays this season. If the team does well and he contributes, no one will hold this against him. If he flunks out of the league it will be because he can't hit anymore, and then people will chalk up his brief success to the PEDs.

 

Over to you: how did Sportsnet handle the Colabello story? 

 

Quick Hits

 

While people are excited about the new dirt infield at the Dome, the grass discussions have died down significantly. Here's a CBC report with the lead researcher. Doesn't sound promising, and Shapiro has never said anything unequivocally positive about the idea. This was more of a Beeston labour of love.

 

Curt Schilling isn't taking his termination lying down. He is doing some interviews where he discusses "the 'nosedive' the United States is in as a result of the Obama Administration, and the hypocrisy of people like rock star Bruce Springsteen."

 

Curtis Rush retired/was offered a buyout from the Star this week as the paper goes in another direction. He's very proud of his versatility as a journalist. In case you have forgotten his body of work, his sports highlights include this.

 

Another National Post casualty succumbs to Vice. Congrats to Kaitlyn McGrath on her first story with that outlet.

 

In a Seen & Heard first, here is a link to a Government of Ontario press release. Apparently 50% of companies are breaking the law when it comes to unpaid internships. I am working on a story on unpaid internships in sports media. If you have insights, drop me a line.

 

The #MoreThanMean video is almost too hard to watch. I cannot imagine what it is like to be on the receiving end of that kind of harassment. If you or someone you know has ever threatened someone with rape on Twitter, please seek out help. You probably don't think of yourself as a monster, but you are. This is not normal behaviour. It's not too late to change.

 

Speaking of the video, it would have been nice to hear from Hazel Mae on this issue. With no offence intended to Jackie Redmond, who discussed the video with Dean Blundell, Hazel is a veteran of the industry, goes back to the days before Twitter, and has a wide range of experience in multiple cities. (Sorry if I missed someone interviewing her). Lastly, in light of this video, I am slightly more sympathetic to Matt Cauz's radical proposal that people on twitter should be microchipped so they can be zapped remotely when they tweet stupid things.

 

Steve Simmons appeared on Toronto Mike's podcast this week. I only found time to listen to a snippet but it sounds like a pretty candid interview. They refer to Brunt's Shapiro documentary (read my thoughts here) as an "infomercial" and "embarrassing", and speculate that this was something he "swallowed for the team".

 

Low Hanging Fruit

 

  • On a week when Dean Blundell tried to convince us he cares about misogyny, he also tweeted some more lighthearted fun about sports deaths.

 

 

  • Not surprised to see Damien Cox and Steve Simmons defend Larry Brooks after NYR Dan Boyle cussed him out. I think there is definitely value in asking tough questions but as we learned from the Feschuk fiasco, scrums are probably the lowest form of journalistic interaction. No one does their best work there.

 

 

  • Awkward moments on television: Eric Smith twice referring to "Martine" during a hit from Indiana while throwing back to Evanka Osmak in the studio

 

  • Awkward moments on radio: Michael Grange speaking from Indiana with a bad cell connection. Grange has a pretty gravelly voice to begin with. When you combine that with a bad phone line, he sounded like he was calling from the bottom of a quarry this week.

 

  • What makes less sense?: 1) having Tim & Sid host random quick hits from somewhere inside the ACC during the game or 2) having the Overdrive bang bus crew broadcasting from Jurassic Park.

 

  • The confusing world we live in: is Bell sad that Sportsnet gets Game 7 for the Raps or happy that MLSE gets another home playoff date?

 

  • Phrases that need to be expunged if you have a radio show: "I threw this out in Twitter." We don't care. Just make your point.

 

  • Age and gravity destroy us all in the end. Mercifully none of us have to go through that process in stunning HD where every crease and crevasse is on full display for the audience at home.

 

  • Sportsnet's iOs app is only available on the Canadian iTunes store. This is annoying for those of us with US accounts who cannot download from the Canadian store. TSN GO is available on both.

 

  • Sportsnet should have tapped Gregg Zaun to interview Chris Colabello. Zaun could have dispensed some fatherly advice about how to move forward after you get mixed up in a steroids scandal.

 

  • Let's do this:

 

 

—–

 

thanks for reading and commenting,

until next time …

mike (not really in boston)

 

144 Comments

  1. Sam says:

    Great one MIB. Will be tapping my foot like Sonic the Hedgehog awaiting your return to Saturday mornings. Couple quick comments:

    – Great pic.

    – “Overdrive bang bus crew” – actually LOL’d. I think that sort of talk is hilarious but it does not belong on afternoon radio. If they don’t really try to put a stop to it, its a slippery slope…

    – Getting to the point (like I think you are) where I don’t care about PED’s. If Colabello can hit, he’ll play (just like Stroman).

    – I’m pretty tired of seeing Shapiro, Atkins etc. in the media. I have no interest in what they have to say. I highly doubt they are making any final huge dollar decisions. Just shut up and win baby.

  2. Rob J says:

    Marty knows the CFL very well. A site where he gives his picks and opinions would be worthwhile and of interest. I hope he does it, despite the irrational response he receives for his fight against blind homerism among fans and media.

  3. Greg says:

    I am truly back and forth between TSN and the FAN. In the mornings I listen to the FAN only because living in Kitchener the TSN signal is pretty much non existent and the FAN usually works. At work however, I listen to TSN Hamilton and Dan Patrick in the morning, a really great show. No hockey talk but there is enough of that through the day and there is tons of football talk, where you don’t get any of that on any of the other shows. I cant stand Jeff Blair, or the Hockey Central guys, and I’m not a fan of the new leafs lunch either. Not so much because of Andi, mainly because of the co-hosts she has. In the Afternoon it’s Andrew Walker, which isn’t great, but not bad either and definitely the better of the 2 options. Then, its all Overdrive. Maybe its because I am younger, but I love that show and think its the best show in the market. Good sports talk and just plain hilarious. “Gerry” is the best bit going in Toronto sports talk radio hands down.

  4. Mike V says:

    So you guys constantly attack Numeris for allegedly not being accurate but you then post the results of an unscientific Twitter poll as a good indication of interest?

    ” despite the near universal mockery he receives for his desperate attempts to troll anything about Toronto teams”. Fixed that for you.

  5. Dan says:

    — Your poll is missing an option: neither. I don’t listen to a single second of Toronto radio (sports or otherwise) but I still love coming by here every week. Keep up the good work.

    — One reason I would say for the difference between ratings and those poll results is that a lot of the younger demo listen to radio shows either streaming live or via podcast; neither of which can be factored into PPM ratings.

    — I’m curious how SN got their hands on Raptors playoff games this season considering TSN has always had exclusivity over all playoffs in years past. Even more curious how they decided to split up the games. I’m sure SN are happy they’ll have the last Raptors game for the season.

  6. Radio Fan says:

    Another great read MIB!My radio listening has changed in the past few years to the point where i only listen to Prime Time.Maybe John Shannon is the answer as the permanent 5-7 co-host?At least Bob lets him interact with the guests.
    I am dreading the summer when Bob goes on Holidays and we have to listen to Jeff Blair as the PTS host. Maybe we will get lucky and Elliotte Friedman will be available.

  7. Mike V says:

    PPMs pick up radio streaming signals.

  8. Art says:

    I used to be a Fan 590 listener and switched to TSN 1050. I wasn’t happy with the changes but here is my votes (i didn’t vote in these polls)

    Naylor & Landsberg vs. Dean Blundell

    – They both suck! Can’t listen to either. There shoulf have been a third option in that poll that said smash my radio into pieces. Seriously beating Blundell in a popularity contest isn’t hard. This is not something to be proud of.. it doesn’t mean you are any good. Landsberg is God Awful he is the most annoying person on radio. His jumpy hyper way of talking aounds like he’s on something (not saying he is). I could go on but I won’t.

    Wheeler and Cauz vs Blair
    Again this is so difficult. If it was Mako and Cauz there would be no doubt. I like Cauz but Wheeler is brutal. I’m voting Blair just because Wheeler stinks.

    Richards vs Walker.
    I bet you if Bastl was still with Richards he would win for sure. The show is dull and stale without him. Richards is good but he needs help and Sean isn’t enough. I still vote Richards

    OverDrive vs. PTS
    I loved PTS for years but it’s just played out. I still listen a bit if it was PTS vs. Naylor I’d vote for PTS but OverDrive is just more entertaing. It might not be as intellegant, they mave have far less knowledge but they just have more fun.
    I vote overdrive

    Missed one. Leafs Lunch vs. Hockey Central at noon.

    This one is easy. Hockey Central at noon by a mile. They are nowhere near as good as the ild Leafs Lunch but beat the new show with Andi easy. Andi just isn’t very good. I know Kyper and MacLean are not the greatest but I gind them entertaining. I enjoy the batter and fighting. It’s pretty good.

    In the end what saves TSN 1050 even after the changes is having Bob McKenzie, Dreger and the best insiders in the game as regualr guests.

    I’m still a TSN 1050 guy but not as much as I used to be. Overall I find myself streaming TSN 690 more. Connor McKenna in the Morning, Tony Marinaro mid morning. Nilan afternoon and then I switch back to 1050 for overdrive.

    The Fan 590 just isn’t very good anymore. They need a major shakeup.

  9. Big G says:

    @MIB

    I think your grossly under selling how Jamie Campbell conducted himself on the Jeff Blair show this past week. Campbell was extremely unprofessional and lacked integrity in his view of the Collebello positive test. Jamie pretty much suggested that there is a flaw in the testing even after Blair told Jamie that the entire system was overhauled because of the Ryan Braun fiasco and the possibility of a flaw is very slim. Jamie even had the Gaul to say that most people when guilty would admit to guilt to avoid the embarrassment, Brunt firmly disagreed, I would much rather take Brunt’s word for it in this context as Brunt covered doping for years vs Campbell who has been a Jays fanboy for years. I’m glad Brunt and Blair distance themselves from the propaganda and nonsense Jamie offered on the show. Jamie was simply trying to insight fans to feel sorry for Collebello and turn venom towards the league. I hope Rogers got a call from the league after Campbell was sso critical of the test as oppose to laying into Collebello.

  10. Steve Jones says:

    Polls. I think It is impossible for Numeris to get an accurate number with such a small sample size. I would never believe any quantatative research with such small numbers. Similarly those web polls are highly suspect. But they do give people something to talk about. So there is that.

    Colabello. Who cares. About getting caught or his lame excuses. Two points here. He got caught using an old German concoction that was to be clear very unlikely to be tainting some supplement. The interview showed how Sportsnet thinks they can control the narrative. I say this in conjunction with that puff piece Brunt did. Have Colabello talk to a Jays broadcaster. Have the broadcaster throw out canards like Colabello liked to inspect his food. Do just enough to soften the story without being overt. On the flip have Brunt, the consummate journalist do an infomercial for Shapiro. Use Brunts status to spread a thin patina of credibility over the steaming pile. Pity people ain’t as dumb as the big heads over at SN think they are.

    Curt Schilling. I don’t hope for personal disaster for anyone. But I will readily admit the loss of his fortune and his job do make my lip curl upwards just a bit.

    Simmons. I was surprised. I enjoyed the TO Mike interview. Still not a fan.

    Age and gravity. I will say this, you rarely have to worry about that exposure with women. They are shuffled off well before the makeup stops hiding the years. Men, they get to hang on til they say something stupid or can’t remember what what they are covering. The older I get the more this overt sexism pisses me off.

  11. DJ says:

    Here is a basic sample size calculator for academic research. Not the one I use in my work but I am not in my office right now.

    http://www.resolutionresearch.com/results-calculate.html

    Basically if your total population of listeners is 250k, you want a sample of 384.
    If your total population is 2,500 – sample of 333. Population of 25,000 – 378. But basically at a 95% confidence level a sample of 380ish is going to max out around 380

    So if those Numeris numbers are correct – 278 metres – than they are assuming a population of about 1,000 listeners for all talk radio…….

  12. DJ says:

    Ugh…..I need to proofread.

    **Basically at a sample of 380 you are maxing out for any radio population in Canada

  13. mario says:

    Thanks for a great read. I generally not a big fan of polls especially one pertaining the radio, seeing I find them not a true view on the listing public. BUT they are fun to view if you don’t take them seriously.

  14. Dan says:

    @MikeV: They pick up the signal no matter how you’re streaming the show (e.g., official site, Tune-In app)? I presume it doesn’t work though unless you’re listening to it through speakers and not through headphones for all those who listen to radio at work.

  15. Rob J says:

    And laughable opinions like ‘stroman is an ace’ ‘Gibbys a great manager’ and ‘Storen would close for any other team’ aren’t classic trolls? Please!

  16. Mike V says:

    Rob, no those are not. Really not my problem if you honestly can’t tell the difference between those and Donaldson must be on steroids because he had some words with a pitcher b

  17. Mike V says:

    Dan, the stream you hear comes from the same audio source so it wouldn’t matter what app or website you use to access it. It’s true that PPMs don’t pick up headphone sounds on its own but there is an adaptor that plugs them into the cord allowing them to pick up the signal. Now how many people in the pane that bother with that I don’t know.

  18. Daniel says:

    Fun to read those polls, but as you said, hard to take it too seriously since it’s just among followers of one particular hockey account. It’s really only hitting people with one point of view. Doesn’t surprise me that people who are hardcore hockey fans would prefer TSN.

    The only responses that surprise me – that Cauz/Wheeler had so many votes (I think Wheeler is really hard to listen to). And that Overdrive trounced PTS. I think the hockey thing may be at play there. Plus since McCown plays kind of an A hole character, I think there a ‘hate him but still listen’ thing going on with him. Same kind of thing as with Stern. I think it’s part of the key to their success.

  19. Tighthead says:

    I read that Boyle has had a difficult family matter this year, which was kept under wraps but was known to the media. He felt like Brooks and Cyrgalis knew he had that to deal with and we’re still merciless.

  20. imsorrydave says:

    First time commenting. Terrific website and always great viewpoints and conversation. What motivated me to finally comment after lurking for months and months? Marty York! I clicked on his twitter link. Wow, just wow. There is one bitter, angry man. Homerism? “Jayjunkies”. Of course! It’s sports! It’s not real life. No one’s gonna die. Geez Marty, let go of the past. Sports is how we spend our disposable income and disposable time. Who cares if there’s no impartiality. It’s sports, not world diplomacy, or running a homeless shelter, or building a highway. If professional sports went away tomorrow, this planet wouldn’t even skip a beat. Life would go on.

    My other 2 cents- Mike Wilner: Is it me or does he always sound distracted. Close the laptop Mike, stop surfing the internet during your show and pay attention to the job at hand.

    I’m wish they’d drop John Shannon from PTS. I do, Bob, I really do (if I hear that one more time I’m flinging the ipad into the trash)

    I miss Dirk Hayhurst on Jay broadcasts and Baseball Central.

    Thanks for reading.

  21. dogpounder says:

    Lol.

    Bang bus crew. +1

  22. Rob J says:

    Are people genuinely not aware of the mute and block features of twitter? Like Ricky Gervais says, following someone on twitter and complaining about what they tweet is like stalking someone but getting upset with the route they take home. I know exactly who I like and don’t, therefore I only follow accounts I enjoy, and switch stations on radio and TV when those I find objectionable are on. If this were a food-critic site, how weird would it be if a commenter said “Every single time I go to this restaurant, I get sick”. After one visit, I bet you’d eat elsewhere. You ‘hate’ Marty or whomever? Mute or block!

  23. Jp says:

    Colabello:
    If you are a fringe major leaguer playing independent ball for 7 years, someone comes to you and offer you a magic pill, will be faster, stronger and will get a sniff at a mlb contract, it also comes with the certainty of getting caught and suspended down the road, you still take that pill and stuff it down your throat right away.

    Plebs calling in on open lines are all of the same opinion: how can he be such an idiot and not knowing what he puts in his body… Come on..

  24. GreyCountyMike says:

    imsorrydave: York may or may not be a bitter guy (not knowing him, I have no clue), but I certainly appreciate the fact he seems confident enough to express exactly how he feels about “his brethren” in the media. Bitter or not, he’s no phony.

  25. Rob J says:

    Gotta echo Grey county mike here. A guy to go 100 percent against the norm and repeatedly double-down on his hatred of brainwashed homer media and fans is admirable. Face it, if he was a media suck-up like so many are, he’d be praised here and on twitter. (Full disclosure: he regularly retweets me and we are friendly offline)

  26. Too Much says:

    Mike V is correct, sample size has nothing to do with population size. And even if you double sample size your standard error isn’t going to change that much. That’s why it’s bogus to complain about how “few” people are in the sample. You really need to look at the trends, not the absolutes. And of course if you’re unfortunate (or fortunate) to have an outlier – one who listens to a station 24/7, the results will be skewed for a while – but generally over time those outliers show up for most stations.

    Also, Numeris isn’t estimating the number of sports radio listeners – the sample is to provide data on radio listening – all other things being equal with a statistically sound sample then everything should fall out and reflect the general population. In diaries this sometimes doesn’t happen – you can send out diaries and the people you send out to should reflect demographics of the market – but if only a certain portion return the diaries then you have an issue. As tends to be the case, you get lots of older people returning diaries but a lot less in the younger demographics.

  27. Mike V says:

    GCM it depends on your definition. If you think a journalist is phony when they plagiarize other papers and pedal made up or poorly researched stories that fall apart easily, then Marty York most certainly qualifies. There are numerous examples of it in his career and it finally caught up with him at Metro five or six years ago. It also is fairly easy to be an asshole on Twitter after you’ve used up all your second chances. And only on Twitter I might add, because numerous media members have commented over the years that they never saw Marty go up to a player or coach and repeat what he wrote. At least Feschuk etc can stand there like a man.

    Marty York was basically the opposite of the worst perception people have of Wilner; everything with Toronto teams was always negative. The teams sucked (even when the team won four in five divisions and back-to-back titles); the coach and GM were always near being fired; the players all hated each other and it was a bad locker room; Toronto instantly lost all trades; free agent signings were bad; team would miss all players who left for free agency; baseless accusations of PEDs; none of the prospects were good; all the players were overrated (even the ones winning awards and other teams were dying to get); fans were stupid just for being fans; anyone who acknowledges that a good Toronto team is good is a homer; but by all means pump up any American team the second they go on a run; and on and on. And he was pulling this shit decades ago, long before Rogers or Bell owned any teams and he could pull the “objective card”. But none of this is of an objective journalist nor is it admirable at all. Really makes you wonder why he even became a sports reporter if all he was going to do was crap on everyone he covered and read his paper. Also, extremely lucky to come around in the prehistoric days of the Internet because there is no way he would’ve survived doing this coming up now.

  28. Mike V says:

    Too Much, I would add that outliers aren’t necessarily a bad thing. There are a lot of people out there who are siloed with one or two radio and TV stations that Numeris theoretically wants to account for too. Having many of them in the pool would be bad but the chances of that are extremely rare.

  29. Cirroc says:

    I hope the Jays enjoyed their time in the sun. Couple their bad press and shitty on-field performance with the fact that the Leafers are getting Austin Matthews and they’ll be back to the 10th page of the sports section where they belong.

  30. Rob J says:

    Phew! Good thing Tor ‘won’ the draft lottery, or TSN would have to find something else Toronto-related to ‘cover’ for the next 9 hours. Do they even pretend not to be Tor-centric anymore? Oilers didn’t get near the adulation, I mean ‘coverage’ last year as the team TSN partly owns is getting.

  31. Cirroc says:

    Surely @Rob J understands the concept of supply and demand…

  32. Rob J says:

    I understand the concept of ‘we own the team so let’s pump the sucker up’. I can see why the fans are jazzed but its embarrassing to read the tweets of leaf fanboys who now have jobs ‘covering’ their fave team for a (haha) national sports network. I understand it just fine.

  33. Original Mitch says:

    I wish Mike Wilner could have done the interview with Collabello. He could have emphasized how it happened early in the season so it doesn’t mean anything.

  34. GreyCountyMike says:

    Mike V: Point well taken. York isn’t credible in your eyes … and apparently in the eyes of some others … and that’s fair.

    No doubt, he doesn’t run with the pack. Personally, I like that. In a sports media market as large as Toronto, there is an embarrassingly high amount of groupthink. I like I guy who will go south when everyone goes north. I understand that doesn’t necessarily make everyone else wrong and him right; it does make it interesting.

    It was intriguing to read Wilner’s thin-skinned Twitter response to York earlier this week; if York was completely blowing smoke, do you think Wilner would bother to respond at all? Of course, he would not … and that, to me, shows there must be at least an ounce of truth in what York believes and shares.

    And, separate from the extremes of Jays’ antagonist York and Jays’ propagandist Wilner, a very reputable longtime Toronto-based news reporter shared with me recently that there is, indeed, a group of Rogers reporters who make it their business to put promotion before journalism when it comes to the beloved Blue Jays. Judging from his Tweets, York clearly believes this to be true, too. As for Wilner, well …

  35. Mike V says:

    Not knowing what was said on Twitter between the two I wouldn’t read too much into it. It’s heard to ignore the trolls all the time, we’ve all been guilty of responding to something when we shouldn’t have. Was it about York’s gutless attack on Jerry, that the late Tom Check told him (and only him of course) that he hated Howarth and couldn’t stand working with him? If some moron wrote that about a coworker I cared about, it would be hard for me just to ignore it too.

    Sure group think does exists here in some cases, there’s even examples of it on this board. However, a lot of what gets classified as groupthink by some isn’t that at all. It isn’t groupthink to say Bautista and Donaldson are elite hitters in baseball or that the Jays offense was one of the best in baseball last year, it’s a conclusion that all baseball people would and have reached. By denying that, York’s not some principled reporter following Woodward and Bernstein but the dummy at Salon.com who doesn’t think Hillary Clinton has a clear lead over Bernie Sanders.

    Whatever your perception of Wilner (for the record my take is he’s a fan of the team and is somewhat biased towards them but that gets magnified by the role he’s in of taking calls – a lot of which are flat out dumb – that clearly annoy him. Stick Jonah Keri or Dave Cameron in that role for years and I’m not sure they’d come across any better) he doesn’t put out fake stories. He never said last year that “my sources are telling me that David Price will resign here”. York has done that kind of shoddy story many many times before getting the boot and if you care about journalism at all, that junk was the real issue with his work not that he thinks it’s his job to be a shit in everyone’s cut or that saying stupid Blow Jays Junkies is an acceptable rebuttal to fans chanting MVP for the actual MVP.

    Is Barry Davis a guy who promotes too much? Sure, but that’s essentially his job on the broadcast. Is Jeff Blair? I wouldn’t say so, I’ve been a fan of his for years and his views are pretty consistent for pre-Rogers days. I think you really have to go person by person to see who shades which way. BTW, even when not owned by the network, local game broadcasters and sideline reporters tend to shade in favour of the team so I wouldn’t even chalk that up to a Rogers thing.

    In other news, much bigger media markets get much more media coverage… Just like they always have.

  36. Mike V says:

    http://rrj.ca/whipping-boy/ if you haven’t read this GCM you should. It’s a story a Ryerson student did on York almost 25 years ago. Part sympathetic profile, part takedown you’d see on the likes of Deadspin these days. I think it shows that these issues were glaringly obvious to most even back then, years before it finally caught up with him.

  37. mike (in boston) says:

    now that we got that out of our system … can we please NOT turn the rest of the discussion section into a referendum on Marty York? People have said their piece on both sides. Let’s talk about something else.

  38. mike (in boston) says:

    Steve Jones – “Age and gravity. I will say this, you rarely have to worry about that exposure with women. They are shuffled off well before the makeup stops hiding the years. Men, they get to hang on til they say something stupid or can’t remember what what they are covering. The older I get the more this overt sexism pisses me off.

    Great post. You are exactly right about this double standard.

  39. imsorrydave says:

    GreyCountyMike and Mike V- great conversation and eye-opening, especially that Ryerson paper. This is why I come back to this site week after week; intelligent conversation. York is an interesting character, that’s for sure. I am curious as hell as to what motivates him. I actually think he is a phony. His entire schtick revolves around out and out dumping on a team and not offering any intelligent counterpoint whatsoever. He’s like playing chess with a pigeon- he jumps onto the table, knocks all the pieces over, shits all over the board, then struts around like he won the game (and unlike Marty, apparently, I will not take credit for that last sentence- I read that somewhere… 🙂

  40. Rob J says:

    Sorry, MIB, I read your post about ending the York discussion, but it is ridiculous that personal, hateful attacks on the guy have been posted, even trying to did deep into his psyche. He’s not even in sports media anymore, and at least every single tweet from his account has his name and picture alongside, and his bio is honest and upfront. Counter that with anon and potentially libelous ad hominem broadsides from the likes of those I’ve regretfully read here. I feel commenters should put their actual names to their attacks, esp when their target does so.

  41. GreyCountyMike says:

    The Jamie Campbell “exclusive” was, typically, overplayed by a network so clearly desperate to continually boost the fact it has an in with the in-house team. Rogers, we get it … you don’t have to remind us forever.

    Campbell was not the most credible choice to conduct that interview, based on his admitted lifelong love affair with the Jays, but as suggested, what is not known is if Colabello would have agreed to be interviewed by someone more journalistic. Not knowing the answer to that, we can only assume that Campbell was the best or perhaps even the only option that producers had in this case.

  42. Mike V says:

    Broadside attacks like Marty York’s on Jerry Howarth among others? It’s hilarious that this complaint is coming from his one sycophant follower considering the glass house he lives in.

    Unlike those, my problems with York aren’t personal. I’ve never met the man. They are issues with his professional conduct that are well documented and stretch back to the beginning of his career. If they are libellous, why didn’t he sue the RRJ then? He may not have a job in the sports media anymore but he keeps being brought up here( mostly by you I might add) and judging by his Twitter profile I’d say he wants to be seen as an arbitrator of what other “homers” say so I figure I’d throw my two cents in. If MIB doesn’t want it, this’ll be the last.

    I’ll just say that I get it. He constantly and ruthlessly attacks Toronto teams so you like him and even try to emulate his approach with your posts here. Fine, your perogative. But his history says he’s not the hero you think he is.

  43. Rob J says:

    I appreciate the compliment, Mike V! Remember, #homerismDoesntPay

  44. Mike V says:

    I think that’s what happened GCM. CC’s team (his agent&PR- I don’t think it was from Shapiro) asked for Jaime to do the interview knowing it wouldn’t be as hard hitting as possible. There’s no reason Chris couldn’t have done a whole host of interviews or a press conference open to all. That he hasn’t tells me they wanted it tightly controlled (and why wouldn’t you if you were him- I haven’t seen a convincing argument that he didn’t knowingly do it). If that request was made as a deal breaker, Sportsnet could either pass entirely (unlikely) or let Jaime do it and have the other personalities conduct surrounding analysis of what was said like Blair, Brunt and Zwelling did.

  45. Shwaguy says:

    Do all the folks who don’t like Wilner actually listen to the idiots who call him? Do you understand his job is to promote the team? Do you understand he’s not big on ‘clutch hitting’ which math has shown doesn’t actually exist. And if you call him and start talking about that or any other made up garbage he’ll call you out on it?

    Last year I heard a JaysTalk where the idiot on the phone (pre All Star game) said the Jays should trade a bunch of spare parts that add up to Mike Trout’s salary to the Angels for Trout. Wilner called the guy out for being ridiculous and I heard the next caller defend that as though the real world operates like a video game trade. Just complete thoughtless garbage. I swear some people would actually have an issue with that and call Wilner arrogant, shill, stupid or whatnot because he didn’t consider the possibility.

    That’s what I see when I read the comments here sometimes. “I think so and so sucks, I hate (Bell)(Rogers) so (Bell)(Rogers) is superior.”

    You’re offering an opinion worth a bunch of crap in exchange for Mike Trout.

  46. Rob J says:

    Wow, the Sun has really cut back on its baseball coverage. No boxscores (except for the freefalling Jays), no pitching matchups for today, and the standings are on pg 24, with less space given than the Woodbine results. I’ll never forget the days when Tor was a baseball town (Aug 2015-April 2016

  47. (Another) Andrew says:

    How amateurish is The Fan on weekends? This morning they had a Raceline report informing listeners that there would be lots of motorsports today; the Chinese GP (F1), the Long Beach race (Indycar), and some NASCAR event. Those were all held two weeks ago!

  48. Another Steve says:

    Jamie Campbell’s Collebello “exclusive” wasn’t any more journalism than Brunt’s infomercial on Shapiro was. Welcome to Sportsnet.

    Much like politicians, I don’t expect pro athletes to be truthful, let alone forthright. Pro athletes are programmed, very media savvy, hence why so heavy on the cliches. So I tend to dismiss what they have to say, quickly & easily.
    So Collebello was on the juice, he got caught, got suspended, etc., etc.,
    makes a lot of sense to me.

    I’ll accept the science/testing explanation over the athlete’s version.
    He got caught cheating, he isn’t the first, he won’t be the last, so let’s just move along.

  49. Another Steve says:

    Rob J – spot on!
    Mute. Unfollow. Switch stations…..

  50. Another Steve says:

    Much like Greg, I’m back and forth between TSN and The Fan.

    In the mornings, it’s 1150 for Mike & Mike and then Dan Patrick.
    Both shows cover all other sports except hockey; both shows are very entertaining and informative. Good balance for my day.

    11:00am, I switch to 590 for Baseball Central; it’s a solid show.

    12:00, I wait to hear who the hosts are for HC; just about any combo of 3 talking puck-heads not named Kypreos, Maclean, Millard or Shannon salvages the show. Otherwise, it’s over to 1050 for Leafs Lunch, and main co-host, Dave Poulin. He provides interesting mgmt “insider” insight.

    Afternoon, it’s all Walker, easily the better of the 2 options; this show gets tighter and better with each passing week.

    4:00 its Overdrive.

    5:00 it’s Ray Ferraro, which has become must listen to radio – terrific insight. After Ferraro, it’s back to 590, to determine who the guest host is, and guests are? With so many Sportnet puppets getting air-time, PTS has become almost unlistenable as the apologists get so much more exposure.

    I typically end up back at Overdrive as it is everything PTS isn’t, and I don’t mind that.

    PTS may as well be re-named, Bob and His Fart Catchers!
    Hate the way Round Table Friday’s have become a platform for the corporate cheerleaders to massage the corporation’s message.

    I’m 50+. I was a loyal PTS listener. But like McCown, I too seemed to have lost interest in PTS.

  51. Mitch says:

    Jamie Campbell may as well have been wearing a Jays hat and jersey during his “interview” with Collabello. I write interview with parentheses because you got the feeling it was all so scripted that they did many takes to get it right.
    As for Wilner, he’s a jerk to callers who pay his salary. He doesn’t need to be a jerk to them. He could respectfully disagree with them. He doesnt have to treat them like morons, even if some are. That’s why he’s unlikable. Not because he’s a chill, not because he’s thin-skinned. Its because he’s an a**hole to the people who provide content for his job. end of story.

  52. Big G says:

    @Shwaguy

    I find it odd that you acknowledge that Mike’s job is to promote the team and in another breath say he’s rational. The jays for the first time last year made the playoffs after 23 years because of previosly being stuck with a bunch of under performing and poorly constructed teams,inflated contracts and bad management yet fans constantly hear a guy on the radio trying to sell them on the moral victories like run differential, how many Canadian players on the team, the young guys etc as though fans are ignorant to what matters the most wins and losses. It’s not a surprise that Wilner has made it clear that he disagrees with a lot of Zauns analysis, Greg Zaun is critical of coaching and player mistakes which in Mike’s mind may make him irrational, while Mike is the complete opposite, a clear coaching mistake acknowledged by other media outlets in Mikes could have gone either way. How can you trust a guy’s broadcasting who is as you acknowledge there to promote the team and never diverts from that, how rational will this guy really be?
    Mike engages in personal attacks i.e Cito Gaston or calling callers idiots. over hyping players calling Cobly Rasmus the games best centre fielder where is Colby now, Calling Brett Lawrie the best 3rd basemen where is he now and now calling Tulowitski the best offensive shortstop, Tulo is batting under .200 since coming to Toronto. Is that rational. It’s funny that Mike will tolerate the Callers who call in to say that Jays are going to Win the World series when there is little basis for the opinion and they are rational yet anything contrary has no rationality.

    Caller: Mike the Jays are 0 and 10 what do you think?

    Mike: O well they led the team in run differential last year.

    Caller: Mike I said they have not won a game.

    Mike: It’s early

    Caller: You can’t rationally think there is no problem and everything depends on the past.

    Mike: Your an idiot.

  53. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    @Radio Fan
    I quite enjoy Shannon with his light hearted shots at Mccown – When Mccown takes his holidays and Blair is on it is a ‘no listen’ for me – Wilner is a no listen also and I am having a hard time listening to Dan Schulman – I find his voice droning and monotonous – I stream Blundell in the morning as there is absolutely nothing in London in the AM – Am I correct in this – They run 12/13 30 second spots every 8 or nine minutes? They seem to be the same set of ads evry two or three times – No wonder people switch around the dial the ads are killing media be it TV or radio –

  54. Alex says:

    I’m down to blair/brunt, baseball central, PTS and the breakfast club hours, all on podcast so I can skip segments or guests about which I don’t care.

  55. Rob J says:

    If you follow @1236 on twitter, they’ve posted Grange’s 2003 opus on the rise and fall of the Team 1050. Lots of cringeworthy details including a 0.7 rating

  56. Mike says:

    Overdrive has done enough that I only listen to PTS for the segments that they have a really good guest on. Otherwise I’m on TSN.

    It’s not that Overdrive is perfect it’s just a combination of:

    1. Overdrive definitely has its comedic moments – it’s a lot more fun than PTS

    2. PTS seems to always go off the rails – talking over each other on the roundtable, unfunny bickering/banter between Bob & his co-host, the same damn arguments being rehashed 100 times.

    How many times did Bob go on about “I wouldn’t pay Derozan the max, I’d let him leave” and not one second was dedicated to “ok if you let Derozan what’s your next best alternative … who and where do you spend the excess money”?

    I don’t understand where McCown gets this reputation as some type of knowledgeable elder statesmen ….. his thinking is very first level.

    If you spend any amount of time at all evaluating the NBA salary cap and the options teams have in free agency you quickly realize why so many players get “overpaid”.

    There’s a massive scarcity value. A player like Derozan isn’t a “max” the way Lebron is a “max”. But he sure as hell is a “max” when your alternative is signing two Terrence Ross caliber players in the 11-13 million dollar range …. then it gets pretty obvious that the right move is to max a Derozan level talent and pair him with someone on a rookie contract.

  57. Tim says:

    I think I figured out one change that would make Overdrive amazing. They need to replace noodles unfortunately. And it has to be for someone who is extremely knowledgeable in baseball, basketball, football, with a minor in hockey. I think that would erase the negative that the show always receives about being hockey biased.

    The Collabello story has been amazing for a few of us in Western Canada. I wasn’t (nor were friends of mine) shocked to hear the story. He did an appearance at a sports dinner this winter, and we all noticed the change in character. He left for about 30 minutes mid-evening, and holy crap, talk about a behaviour changer. The guy went from not approachable, upset to be there, etc, to being the happiest guy in the building, and asking people to take photos with him. Extremely noticeable.

  58. Rob J says:

    Criticize McCown if you must, but he led a great discussion on the ridiculousness of the NHL playoff seedings where you have the top 2 seeds in each conference playing each other, and the bottom 2 facing off. This guarantees a disastrous round 3 after 2 of Dallas, St Louis, Wash, and Pitt will be out, and 2 of the Islanders, Tampa, Nash, and the Sharks will advance. Third round matchups of, say, Wash vs NYI and St Louis vs. Preds will kill the excitement. Those should be first round matchups, not third round. Good on Bob for pointing this out, and boo to John for defending it based on geography.

  59. Curt says:

    Buddy likes listening to Shannon, but finds Dan Shulman to be droning and monotonous. Wow, this is truly the Bizarro World.

  60. Mark Ruhan says:

    Tim, you make a great point and Scott Macarthur would be really great. Hopefully they consider him in the rotation on Jays off days at home.

  61. Brian says:

    @MontfromLondonOnt

    Do you know why most right-thinking radio listeners don’t like John Shannon? The list is long…

    – Constant repetition, like we didn’t hear him the first time. He’ll say things like: “That’s the Western Conference, Bob. That’s the Western conference.” Not only is it repetitious, it’s too vague to be meaningful.

    – Laughs at his “jokes.” He’ll say things that only HE thinks are funny and attempts to sell those inane thoughts with laughter. No one likes THAT guy.

    – He takes general, common sense analysis and tries to make it seem like it’s ultra insightful, when listeners were already at the end of his thought before he completed it. It’s frustrating because it’s nothing we could not have come up with on our own.

    – He is way overused. If you listen to the FAN, he’s on Hockey Central at Noon three days per week (four if we’re unlucky) and then he will often co-host Primetime Sports (PTS) with McCown and does hits like “three stars” for SportsCentral. In the regular season he also does a pre-game show for Hockey Night in Canada on Saturdays. And if you’re an Oilers fan (like I am) he does the between-periods show. WTF?? Bob McKenzie is not used that much and HE is interesting. (To me, this is the single biggest problem with Shannon and I don’t understand how SN management remains oblivious to this issue.)

    – You often hear SportsNet people allude to Shannon’s meddling behind the scenes, which to some extent implies that he’s not the most easy person to deal with.

    – And, finally, he lacks credibility as an analyst/commentator. JS spent most of his career producing sports TV — and by most accounts he did that well. But just because you’ve watched 1,000s of hours of hockey on TV it doesn’t mean that you are qualified or well suited to be a TV/radio analyst. If that were the case, millions of Canadians would be qualified. The best analysts are entertaining/funny, while providing unique insight and information. Shannon will tell you when the next outdoor game is going to take place but he won’t tell you about pending trades or which coach is going to be fired. Furthermore, when he’s on PTS he talks about many different sports and that’s where his credibility takes even greater hits. Moreover, he’s bland; a bloviator. He’s not someone I want to listen to but you can’t listen to the Fan without hearing his grating persona. (And to all of you who say I wouldn’t say these things to his face, I most certainly would.)

    Congrats to the Raptors on getting to round two. I didn’t think it would happen. But the team’s run is exposing how thin the talent pool is when it comes to Raptors talking heads. Leo Rautins is the Mike Wilner of Raptors broadcasts. There is never any serious criticism from LR on the Raps. He knows who pays him.

    Also, Eric Smith should not be calling games/acting as a colour guy. He started at the Fan as an intern and then became a producer. He has no background in basketball and, at times, it shows. That’s one reason why TSN doesn’t use him on its radio broadcasts. In fact, I don’t think Smith would be on any other radio crew in the NBA but he works cheap and those broadcasts don’t make much (if any) money. Nice guy, better suited as a post-game host. Another guy that doesn’t make the grade is Mo Pete. He’s far too vague, which is often a symptom of not doing enough homework.

    That said, I like Grange and Williams. Both are engaging and well-suited to their roles.

  62. Pete says:

    I have found more and more that with all the sports franchises in Toronto being owned and controlled by Rogers and Bell, my enthusiasm for pro sports is diminishing. Both companies — particularly Rogers considering the major properties they own — manipulate the media pieces they put out there it’s nauseating. Objectivity, and as a result credibility, is pretty much a thing of the past. And it’s no longer just blowhard types like Cox and Simmons. It has creeped into Brunt, Davidi and Friedman and that’s why I can barely sit through any of the talking head segments these days.

    I do find that TSN is better than Sportsnet in this respect, as they don’t control the major properties and have less to lose, so I’ve become a TSN convert.

    I don’t think much can be made of the poll results presented above, but I’ll be shocked if Overdrive hasn’t made a dent in the 4-7 hour, and I’d like to think that even with the warts the Naylor & Landsberg show has, it is seen as a much better alternative to the amateurish Blundell show.

    Final point is that Marty York is a hack. He latches on to something and doesn’t let go. When Sam Mitchell was coaching the Raptors he would use his weekly column to rip him to shreds saying there was no way he was going to be re-signed as coach. Then Mitchell gets rewarded with a 3-year contract and York never mentions him again. He has some weird personal vendettas against people (his Bautista crusade a more recent example), and he can’t be taken seriously.

  63. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    @Brian-
    I don’t know about ‘most right-thinking radio listeners'(who ever they may be) but all I said was I enjoy Shannon’s light hearted banter – I just want to be entertained and I find him entertaining – Maybe I haven’t heard him for long enough to turn into a right-thinking listener – For entertainment on PTS I always make a point to listen when Perkins is on – For me about once or twice a month Perkins and McCown telling stories would be most pleasant – I also enjoy Bob Ryan and his enthusiasm – As for Schulman I never questioned his knowledge just that IMO his voice irritates-

  64. BoJack says:

    I too would love to hear from Hazel on the more than mean video. She married a ball player though so I don’t know if that would effect her willingness to talk about being a woman in the locker room.

    On the polls: let’s be honest … Bob got killed by the “bang bus crew” but he’s still going to post a huge number in a month. There’s basically nothing he or anyone else could do at this point to lose his place on top. Radio is about habits and old habits die hard.

  65. BoJack says:

    forgot to add … does anyone actually think Jamie Campbell is a journalist? Come on … next you’re going to tell me Barry Davis and Mike WIlner are journalists … They work for the team.

  66. Brian says:

    @MontfromLondonOnt You must be an older listener because I don’t think most folks under 40 have any affinity for Shannon, while, admittedly, most probably don’t despise listening to him as much as I do either.
    I listen to both Toronto stations all day and Shannon is a change-the-station voice. Perkins is someone who has lived an amazing life in sports. His stories are often exceptional but his gravelly voice is best in small doses only. What’s also great about Perkins is that he asks relevant questions that educate the listener. Some folks should take note.
    Bob Ryan goes off in every direction all at once. He’s OK but rarely must-listen radio.

  67. Original Mitch says:

    i’m with @monfromlondonONt
    I don’t mind Shannon. Is he a game changer? nah. but he does have extensive experience working in the medium and as you said @brian, most of us COULD be good hockey analysts, it just happens to be him. I’ve noticed that when pro athletes turn to broadcasting, they spew the same cliche and notes that we all do, making the game exactly as simple as they sound. I have no problem listening to Shannon tell me something about hockey, knowing Kypreos or whomever will echo the same sentiment if it rings true. I really believe most Canadians who watch hockey are as competent as any analysts. Except for Andrew Walker, he’s just an ass 🙂

  68. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    @Brian
    You are quite correct – I am 72 and just to put that in perspective my first hockey game my Dad took me to at the Montreal Forum had Glenn Hall in nets for Detroit!
    I no longer watch hockey since the shoot out was instituted and really only follow the Detroit Tigers – Never cared for the NBA as I think they ‘cheat’ –
    I listen to radio to be entertained and be amused but I remember radio (and TV I guess) with FAR less commercials – That really ruins any sporting event or radio show – I certainly turn off the ads – Just too many- Oh and I always turn off Wilner and Blair –
    Apologies for the derail

  69. Rob J says:

    An LA Dodger player just tested positive for a PED. Wonder if he’ll wrangle Tommy Lasorda to conduct the teery ‘how the heck did that get in there’ interview.

  70. Alex says:

    I’m over 45, must be why I like Shannon. He was also comes host when I started listening to PTS during A brunt summer vacation, so I didn’t know him as a fill in.

  71. Too Much says:

    I’m over 45, heck I’m over 55 and am not a Shannon fan: whiny voice, plus all the other reasons mentioned by Brian.

  72. Paul G. says:

    I don’t see age demographics as explaining support or a lack thereof for a given announcer. It simply comes down to one’s personal preferences.

    In my case I’m 58 and not a Shannon fan. He just comes off as too full of himself, for my tastes. Perkins on the other hand is a must listen for me. A wealth of experience that translates into great stories and insights.

  73. Alice says:

    This website is so hard on Dean. Maybe he really wasn’t sure about whether or not Cizikas killed anyone. Also, since Cizikas is no longer a minor there’s no legal problem with Dean talking about it. Dean is not perfect, but he’s not the buffoon you all paint him out to be.

  74. Greasy Gus says:

    Does Sid actually know anything about basketball??? Seeing Sportsnet manufactured cutouts of his face planted in the crowd is bad enough but having to listen to him pretend he’s a hoops expert is awful. Poor Tim. He should have asked to do the Raps gig solo and let Sid stay outside with his people.

  75. Eric says:

    @Alice,

    Yes he is a buffoon, And a Bufoon with a history of offensive comments. His sports knowledge is a joke and he has no business on sports radio. She should go back a rock station where he can go back to the same lame bits he’s been doing for 15 years. He freaking sucks.

    The only reason why anyone listens to Naylor and Landsberg is because he’s the alternative.

  76. Mike V says:

    Guess Sportsnet should wish for an all-American playoffs every year; audience share in April was up 19%!

    Before anyone asks that was indeed sarcasm. Yes, it doesn’t include CBC games which suffered greater declines, yes there were 4 Raptors round 1 games this year vs 0 last year (though only game 7 drew really well) and yes the Blue Jays ratings were up a lot. But maybe the doomsday predictions for the network as a whole were just a tad too pessimistic.

    Am I the only one under 35 commenting here?

  77. jackbee says:

    The sports polls in this blog are not viable, based on only appx. a couple hundred responders. I’ll wait for Numeris results to be the true arbitrator of popularity of sports talk shows.

    This morning’s lowlights include Landsburg ticking off McGuire when h asked about Pittsburgh G Matt Murray possibly being available in expansion draft for the Leafs, and McGuire politely telling him off by stating his focus is on hockey playoffs he’s covering for NBC and not expansion draft matters.
    Richards is much more personable than Walker and I have enjoyed his new 1-4 show. Richards definitely needs no cohost.

    As for nitwit Blundell, he chided one of his Co. lackeys for not wanting to accompany him for Sunday game at Rogers Centre until said lackey reminded him it was Mother’s Day which sounded like Blundell was. not aware of.

    As for chiding bloggers about c0mmenting on York and blog about other sports items – being a democracy in Canada on line folks in THIS blog can comment on York to their heart’s content. York was a long time prominent sports journalist in Canada and had more credence for more years than this blog’s author or many bloggers commenting on this site. Let the slngs and arrows continue as they may, in May.

    As for other matters — Mae would have made good radio sound bite for the issue of women reporters being insulted on many levels in their work lives. Must be also frustrating for Mae after many years hosting at NESN to being lured back to Canada and host prime time sportscasts on Sportsnet. Then being replaced by Tim and Sid and being reduced to being sideline reporter and subliminal cheerleader on Blue Jays broadcasts.

  78. Dros says:

    @Greasy Gus

    Tim and Sid know more about basketball than anybody in this city. Bar none. Hands down.

    The amount of time those guys devoted to basketball in their Score days and in their radio days is unmatched by anybody in the Toronto sports media landscape. Everyone else knows the talking points and the things to hit on, but Tim & Sid actually watch and do their best to promote the sport, knowing it’s an under-served market.

    Anybody who listens/watches their show knows that.

  79. Poker Guy says:

    The Andi Petrillo experiment for me, is over. I have been listening for weeks, and wanted to give it a fair chance. However, for me, she just doesn’t work. Instead of getting into specifics as to why, in this case, I don’t think I need to bash, or point out flaws. I will just say that she has lost me as a listener from 12-1

  80. Omar says:

    jackbee: “As for chiding bloggers about c0mmenting on York and blog about other sports items – being a democracy in Canada on line folks in THIS blog can comment on York to their heart’s content. York was a long time prominent sports journalist in Canada and had more credence for more years than this blog’s author or many bloggers commenting on this site.”

    THIS!!!!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  81. Greg says:

    @Mike V

    You’re not the only one, I am 25.

  82. Matty Zero says:

    Brian pretty much nailed my Shannon sentiments.

  83. Rob J says:

    Toronto Mike (@torontomike) is reporting that Marty York is scheduled to guest on his podcast in the near-future! Be sure to subscribe in order to catch this episode. TM asks all the tough questions so this will be must-listen (Note: I am not Marty and have no personal connection to TM)

  84. Art says:

    @Rob J

    HA Ha I see what you did there at the end.

    I will check that podcast out for sure.

    People should also check out this weeks Bastl’s Bytes. For part 2 of David Bastl’s interview with Don Cherry. Don talks about his coaching career, his suits, Coach’s corner and where he thinks Stamkos will land. Also on the show Bryan Trottier and Josh Lewenberg .

    and like Rob J said about Toronto Mike and Mart York. I am have no personal connection to David Bastl, Don Cherry, Bryan Trottier or Josh Lewenberg nor am I any of them lol.

  85. Omar says:

    I am also looking forward to hearing Marty York on Toronto Mike. MIB or TSM, I would like to see an interview with David Langford (@DaveLanford52) here on this blog. He has some strong opinions on the state of todays media which I think would be compelling reading.

  86. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    @Omar
    I agree with you about Langford – Would be very interesting

  87. Brian says:

    @Omar If Toronto Mike interviews Marty York, he should ask him about when Chris Schultz got into a physical altercation at the old Fan location on Cherry Street in 1998 (I was there working as an intern). York had said something pejorative about Schultz and the latter decided to handle it physically. Pretty heated stuff but no serious damage done.

  88. Wally says:

    @Dros

    Agree 100% with your comment. Tim and Sid seem very knowledgeable and passionate about basketball.

    The issue I find is that the second you mention any sports besides hockey (winter) or baseball (summer), you get the typical complaints from traditionalists. IMO, this sort of mentality comes from either 1) growing up in Toronto with only 2 major teams (Pre-Raptors and TFC era) or 2) succumbing to Canadianna (“Canadian’s like hockey, so I guess I should too”). Tim and Sid are younger guys who grew up with many sports options and as such are not typical puck-heads or baseball-nuts and have a much broader scope of interest.

    There is also a chicken-and-egg thing going on here that is rarely discussed. The media hypes hockey to no end which influences the preferences people have in their sports. These people then tune into media outlets for hockey coverage and the cycle continues. At what point do we objectively look at the population and ask “do people actually like hockey? Or are they being told to like hockey?”.

    Nice write-up as always @MiB

  89. Dros says:

    @Wally

    I agree entirely.

    Now, I’m a fan of baseball, hockey and basketball, but I certainly think there’s a cyclical nature to hockey fandom. When it’s all people talk about, it’s what people feel like they should be watching. The Raptors have had no such prolonged period of being in the spotlight, and, therefore, they’re no where near as big. Could they be, over time? Who knows. What we do know is that basketball skews younger and more diverse than any other sport, which gives it the biggest growth opportunity going forward in Canada.

    Not sure why people resist it even the very idea of it so much, but they do. Tim and Sid have done a lot for basketball fans and I’m a big supporter of them for that (and other reasons). The Score was a basketball haven for fans when CBC, TSN and SN didn’t know what basketball was.

  90. Alex says:

    Given that I dislike basketball and loathe the NFL, no wonder I can’t stand Tim and sid. 😉

  91. mike (in boston) says:

    Alex – who loathes the NFL? Are you a CFL purist or do you just hate any game involving an oblong ball?

    On T&S: my issue is that I can’t really take Sid seriously when he tries to do analysis. This is the downside of being a viral celebrity. I keep expecting him to make a funny face or do a dance or start screaming like a banshee.

  92. Curt says:

    Agreed. When a clown tries to be serious, he’s still a clown.

  93. K-J says:

    While certainly inconclusive, the polling numbers do offer an interesting glimpse into how the market is reacting to the current state of PTS. Growing up outside of the GTA, PTS (back in it’s prime) was able to hold some broader, more national appeal, or at least some broader provincial appeal. Yes, the show was based in Toronto and many of the topics were Toronto-based, but the dialogue was not primarily based around glorifying every Toronto team and player while disrespecting the rest of the country in the process. Bob & Co. understood they had to cover the Toronto market, but cover it respectfully, with levity and a professional perspective. The onus was on reporting and journalism and not simply being a fan boy. Of course, the exception to this was always the Jays but that was far more acceptable once the Jays became the lone baseball franchise in Canada.

    Of course, 95% of the show is devoted to simply promoting the Rogers brand and their holdings and Bob is so bored with the entire show now that it has lost the vast majority of it’s former appeal (with the exception of the rare Friday roundtable with a solid selection of co-hosts). That broader appeal though will never be attained by the Overdrive crew with it’s current approach. The problem starts with the host. Hayes is a promising and young (by industry standards) talent who is a strong interviewer and so long as he has a topic that cannot involve a Toronto franchise within 50km of the conversation, than he has some astute, well-reasoned insights to share. However, he has no intention of actually covering any Toronto teams responsibly, he lets his fan-mindset interfere with his professionalism far too often. Particularly when it comes to the Leafs, he too often comes across as your typical Toronto fratboy fan: Obnoxious, arrogant, rude, whiny and self-absorbed. It costs him so much credibility and respect in the process, particularly as he interacts with real professionals in the field such as McKenzie or Dreger, where it stands out the most. O’Neill echoes much of that same self-important arrogance when Toronto franchises are discussed. Noodles perhaps avoids this pratfall the most but his lack of general knowledge of most topics outside of Hockey sinks him very quickly in most discussions.

    Now, it would likely be pointed out that in the Toronto market, who cares if the radio hosts are obnoxious Toronto fans who don’t think any other city or team matters? It’s a Toronto show, they should just play to their market. Ok, fair enough, but TSN’s goal (presumably)is to either compete with or attempt to overtake the Fan 590. Overdrive was positioned to compete directly or attempt to overtake PTS. PTS at it’s best, was aware of the world outside the GTA, was aware of how they would be perceived by the broader national audience if they got too arrogant, rude or obnoxious about their love of Toronto-based teams. If Overdrive really wants to get to PTS’s heights, they need to stop thinking so small and how nobody outside the GTA market wants to hear a bunch of *likely* former school bullies try to rub it in everyone’s faces about Toronto’s supposed dominance. The larger audience that is there for the taking has never had any interest in being demeaned to.

  94. Rob J says:

    Very astute comment by K-J re: the stereotypical fratboy Leaf (substitute Jays here too of course) fan. I swear on twitter it’s one 20 year old who worships Joe Bowen who’s responsible for the seemingly thousands of identical accounts all spouting the same predictably arrogant and self-absorbed crappola (pardon my language). I’m no Leaf fan (brrrrr) but would gladly follow 1 or 2 rational, educated ones in order to engage in some objective conversations. I Definitely don’t want to hear that stuff on the radio!

  95. doug thompson says:

    cox and mccown found great hilarity re sexual exploitation of south asian women on todays Prime Time Sports approx 5:30 pm. jaw dropping conversation. ignorance of the matter is no excuse given that they both purport to be sports broadcast professionals. at end of discussion cox requested more stories in an apparent state of juvenile sexual excitement. anybody else disgused? i lodged a complaint with CRTC.

  96. Steve G says:

    This doesn’t fit the thread topics but with no real “open forum” posts on here I wanted to post it while it’s top of mind.

    I’ve often said I would pay a surcharge to providers for the option of a feed that only has the in venue audio – no hosts or announcers of any type. I’ve even suggested it in the past to some outlets and leagues as a fan, but never received any type of response. I can count on my fingers the voices that enhance my enjoyment as a viewer. There are many more whose voices lead me to either mute or just change the channel.

    The reason I’m posting now is I heard reference to this yesterday in a podcast I listen to regularly as one of the regular voices was talking about finding a live steam option for a soccer game that was one of a few options for that game from that country’s official PL broadcaster (Russia, I think) that was announcer-free. The reason they were talking about it was they realized /opined that the announcers are unfairly influential in shaping the public discourse about a game/team/players, intentionally or otherwise. They talked about sometimes being at a game and watching it again on TV shortly after and wondering if they were at the same event.

    Am I on an island here or are there others on here who are on the “less/none is more” side of the fence?

  97. Rob J says:

    @Steve G
    I would sign up for that in a second. Remember when there was a CBC strike-lockout and a few HNIC games aired with all the sound except for the announcers. It was much more like being there live compared to hearing a dude like Healy stating the obvious ad nauseum. Less is more!

  98. doug thompson says:

    listened to the pts podcast again – segment with James Sharman. most vulgar 10 minutes on public canadian radio i have ever heard in my 54 years. sharman can be forgotten because he is a a nobody but purported sports broadcast boradcasters cox and mccown found great hilarity regarding brutal exploitive international prostitution (sexual tourism basically). Such comments as ‘ Were you involved? – sadly no’ ‘couldnt we all’ ‘all they needed was a sex scandal to get over the hump’ ‘dont we all?’ “bring more sex scandals” ‘cant get enough”

    Ashamed to be Canadian today.

  99. doug thompson says:

    getting very emotional now having worked and lived in south asia where i lived as a decent human being. Basically Cox and McCown find the sex tourism industry in South Asia – which frequently involves minors and in many cases degradation as exposed the video a topic of tremendous mirth.

  100. Greasy Gus says:

    Well said Doug. No surprise from Bob though. Remember he’s the guy who thinks female athletes are only worth watching if they’re hot. Retire already you dinosaur.

  101. elvis says:

    “Help us do our homework: What are some things we should listen for? What drives you crazy on either station? ”

    here’s one: why is Brian Hayes such a jock sniffer? it’s basically him laughing along with the other two ex-players 90% of the time. He sounds like the dorky kid in high school who is trying desperately to fit in by repeating the cool sayings he hears other people say.

  102. Steve Jones says:

    “And give these tramps a bounce”

    If you haven’t heard it this is the closing line of an ad for trampolines running on TSN1050 and which is announcer read by Jeff O’Neill. I have a sense of humour. I’m no prude. But seriously this is just so sad. As much for the fools who run the company as for the reader. The company isn’t about to appeal to many women who would likely be involved in any purchase decision. And doesn’t O’Neill have a wife and several daughters. If your career is shock jock go for it. As a family man and wannabe authoritative sports voice it’s a major miss.

  103. Mike S says:

    When Sportsnet announced that they had added Shulman for some Jays games this year I was hoping it meant he would be a regular guest on 590………..so far that has turned out to be true……….he has been on PTS at least once a week and he has been on other 590 shows too (Blair, Walker, etc)

    If his schedule permits I would love to hear Shulman on the PTS roundtable every once in a while instead of guys like Shannon (who is on almost every week) or Kirke (who they brought out of mothballs last week)

  104. Curt says:

    I watched that PTS segment with Sharman (being a soccer guy). I can understand how it would be offensive to some. Sharman was using the infamous sex scandal story from last year as an example of how far Leicester had come in less than a year. But of course, crass Bob and Cox had to jump all over it, and like terriers, wouldn’t drop it. Sharmon went along with the joking, but I could see (tv) that he wasn’t comfortable. He’ll learn. Bob and Cox have no excuse.

  105. Omar says:

    @Curt….I just listened to the segment. Of the 11 minutes Sharman was on they “sex” topic came up for a total of 60 seconds (if you download the podcast from 37:41 to 38:40). Cox brought up the subject. I didn’t hear the part where Bob and Cox “wouldn’t drop it”. Cox did make some off colour comments at the enc of the segment as well for a few seconds but not so much Bob.

    Not excusing their comments, but when I read comments like “most vulgar 10 minutes” and “wouldn’t drop it” I thought that is all they talked about, which is far from true. My $0.02

  106. Wally says:

    @Omar

    Totally agree. Just listened to entire segment and while not to diminish the story itself, Cox and McCown were not as vulgar as mentioned earlier in the comments.

    Not great to laugh at the situation but like you said it was 60 seconds and not 10 minutes.

  107. Antonio says:

    @Omar
    I agree. I’m not a fan of Cox or McCown but it wasn’t as bad as doug described.

    I was more annoyed by the two of them at the beginning of the 5pm session rambling about pretty much nothing.

  108. Curt says:

    Well, 60 seconds is a long time in radio, Omar – especially in a short segement. I have to disagree with you about Bob and Cox’s reaction though. The subject was brought up (I thought it was Sharman – I stand corrected), but near the end it was broached jokingly a couple of more times. So no, they didn’t let it go. But whatever, the point is it wasn’t good radio and I can understand why it may be offensive to some listeners.

  109. MontfromLondonOnt says:

    @omar
    I agree with you – It was not as bad as painted on here – A few seconds out of a segment does not warrant a CRTC complaint – However as I am no fan of Damien Cox I was distressed to see he really seemed to get into it –

  110. Curt says:

    How many here have actually watched the video from which all of this is based? It was bad enough to get the players involved and manager fired. Probably not something to be joking about, especially considering the racist and sexist tone of it.

  111. Alex says:

    Not to diminish the feelings felt by the original poster, but i thought it was in poor taste and not worthy of anything more than a head shake.

    But it sounds like it was his ox being gored, so his outrage was understandable.

  112. Alex says:

    I dont remember if Sharman mentioned it, but Leicester has Thai ownership. So, an embarassing scandal is bad enough (i think it was Villa who had something similar happen a few years ago), but when its in a foreign country and home of the owner, its likely a significant black eye. Also, Nigel Pearson had comitted a number of embarassing incidents during the season, which means he may have been on thin ice, even after not being relegated.

  113. Rob J says:

    I’m with Alex. I heard it today knowing the comments were coming. Obviously insensitive and juvenile but if I wasn’t previously aware of the controversy I would have simply thought ‘Give me a break you guys’ and that’s all. However, if it’s an issue that personally has affected a listener, they’re totally allowed to be mightily ticked and upset.

  114. dogpounder says:

    I’ve never shat on Shannon. But yesterday’s hour with Arash was embarrassing. Time to get this guy off the radio. He’s just awful.

  115. Rob J says:

    Does anyone know what the Leafs’ plan is re: Kadri if Trump wins in November? Haven’t heard or read anything about it. A ban on Muslims entering the US ‘until we know what’s going on’ is a part of his psycho platform.

  116. jeff says:

    Trump’s search to “find out what’s going on” is akin to OJ’s search for the “real killers”. I think Nazim will be just fine.

  117. Rob J says:

    A previous prez bombed the heck out of Iraq for no reason leading to 13 years of instability and deepening crises in the region yet is still praised and defended by the low-infos. Do not undersestimate Trump or his rube followers! The worst thing Americans can do right now is say ‘well, he really won’t do it so let’s all have a laugh’

  118. Big G says:

    @Rob J

    Trump is following the mainstream media’s lead when it comes to smearing propaganda about Muslims. It’s not a Trump thing it’s the culture created by those before him compounded the media. Demonization of Muslims predates Trumps candidacy. Trump has a very erratic solution as far Muslims are concerned, that said, let’s just say when the rightful authorities don’t step up and deal with crimes, than you risk some far out in left field suggestion or act for “Justice”.

  119. Rob says:

    Gareth Wheeler came back to Game Day (9-noon) on TSN 1050 after being off for two weeks – So I went back to Dan Patrick on TSN 1150 because I can’t listen to that guy…

    I follow Bob Mackowicz on Twitter and he has been effectively silent for the most part since he left TSN for an unspecified reason last June – Cauz mentioned last week that the plan is for Macko to return whenever he is able to – Lately Macko been tweeting a few times a day, so hopefully we will see him return to Macko and Cauz and Wheeler can concentrate on Soccer coverage, where I trust he does a really great job. He is the perfect example of the Toronto sports radio version of the “Peter Principle”.

  120. Rob J says:

    Thank goodness there are lots of Trump supporters here and in the US. He’s gonna need all of them to assist in the deportation of 15 000 000 people back to Mexico and to flip through the huge binders that will be needed to match those entering the US with their religious affiliation. Good thing there’s only a billion or so Muslims to keep track of. I must congratulate guys like Tom Brady, Rex Ryan, Bobby Knight, and Mike Franseca for finally having a political hero. Hopefully none of their daughters have an abortion in the next 4 years though…wouldn’t want those guys to be connected with dirty criminals.

  121. Big G says:

    Hey Rob J,

    I can’t stand Trump, but at the same time
    You do realize have that Mrs. Wall St. Hillary Clinton is supported and funded by the big corporations on wall Street, Oh ya and by the way those companies on Wall St use Mexican’s and the Chinese for slave labor. I’m not quite sure Hilary is about to bite the hand that feeds her and stop the slave labor, Apple and Nike would make her go missing, as they are the biggest supporters of slave labor. Hate Trump all you want but they all got some gigantic warts.

  122. Omar says:

    I hope the Trump effect won’t affect Roberto Osuna travelling to the US next year….our bullpen needs all the help it can get.

    How will he get to spring training if he has to scale a 25′ wall?

  123. Antonio says:

    I’m starting to think Rob J is really Bruce Arthur. Just a hunch.

  124. Sam In Scarb says:

    @ Antonio NO WAY Rob j is NOT Bruce Arthur
    Rob J is a FAR better writer….
    It is easy to tell.

  125. mike (in boston) says:

    And ….. that’s just about enough Trump talk.

    New thing: Brunt wrote about Colabello. Two things:

    1) He doesn’t use the word exclusive to describe the interview. Smart.

    2) He writes this: “Colabello told his side of the story in a powerful, tearful interview with Sportsnet’s Jamie Campbell, looking and sounding like someone whose dream had just died, and judging by the social-media reaction, the Jays’ fan base mostly believed him.”

    You know who else believed him? Jamie Campbell. “Never read the comments” is a fine mantra, except of course when you conveniently want to paint in broad brush strokes about what “the fans” think.

  126. Bora says:

    @dogpounder what did Ssssssshannon do with Arash? I haven’t had time to listen to the podcast.

  127. Omar says:

    Re: Brunt on Colabello

    Have to give credit where it’s due: When Campbell came on with Blair and Brunt to discuss the Colabello interview, they were both highly skeptical of Colabello’s claims. They sure didn’t sugarcoat it.

    Incidentally, I think Jeff Blair shows the least homerism of any of the personalities at Sportsnet when it comes to the Jays. He is also a terrific follow on twitter for his comments during a Jays game. I wish he did the postgame show for the jays, I would tune in.

  128. Original Mitch says:

    It’s easy for the Rogers shills to “question” Collabello, because he’s not Bautista or a core member of the team. He had a good year, but nonetheless completely disposable. I can imagine the reaction though when Stroman was suspended had it happened in the bigs. It wouldn’t have only been Jamie Campbell slurping to his defense. Luckily, this time the only embarrassing person in all of this was Jamie Campbell. Though being an embarrassment really is just who he is at this point.

  129. Elvis says:

    When did Eric Smith become Hazel Mae? He was just interviewing Kershaw courtside. Better not to use him at all than to make him do these celebrity fluff bits.

  130. Billyjoejimbob says:

    “Does anyone know what the Leafs’ plan is re: Kadri if Trump wins in November” is both the dumbest and funniest thing I have ever read on this site.

    My guess: they trade him to the KHL, hoping they find some value that way!

    I feel so bad for the people who run this website. Trying to do an honest job for such a dumb group of readers.

  131. Omar says:

    @Billyjoejimbob That was supposed to be a joke. Seems as though all the “dumb group of readers” on this website figured that out, except you of course.

    #glasshouses

  132. Rob J says:

    @billyjoejimbob
    Trump’s campaign promise of temporarily banning Muslims from entering the US will affect Kadri’s status. Read a paper and try to keep up!

  133. Toronto Frank says:

    can always count on @billyjoejimbob to show up and tell everyone they are idiots. Must be nice to be so smart. Or maybe you’re not quite as smart as you think you are ……

    protip for Billy: you’re one of the dumb readers this site is for.

  134. Rob J says:

    If its ok with billybobjim-whatever, I’d like to comment on the ongoing US simulcasts that continue to infest the coverage. Bob Cole has not been in round 2 yet (kind of like how the Dodgers banished Vin Scully 20 yrs ago–that was a joke, billybob). Last night they used the CNBC feed…surprised the Dow Jones ticker wasn’t at the bottom of the screen (another attempted joke, billybobjoe). It really hits home when they do the OT magic montage and half of the calls are US homers. Poor Scott Moore, so over his head.

  135. Matty Zero says:

    Even if Trump were elected, it would take years to pass any of those crazy bills into law, and I doubt any of them would get further than the House of Reps or the Senate. Such paranoia.

    As for the US feeds, I’ll take them over Randorf or Romanuk any day.

  136. Antonio says:

    @Rob J
    Comparing Cole with Scully is laughable. I’ll just assume you’re trying to funny again. Go Trump!

  137. Rob J says:

    Oh please, the analogy was obviously refering to age, not quality. American media companies know good things when they see them, so we get-got to see Summerall, Madden, Michaels, Scully, Emrick, Jack Buck, Enberg, etc. With few exceptions in Canada, if you’re old, you ain’t gold.

  138. Mike V says:

    With the exception of Scully, all of the announcers on the list are younger than Bob Cole or were when they retired.

  139. Rob J says:

    US networks allow older announcers to maintain a near fulltime schedule, and are allowed to retire as they see fit. Poor Bob gets shunted away each season with a lack of respect, only to appear on Hometown Hockey, watched by friends and family. (Apologies to anyone in their 70s for the use of the word old)

  140. Original Mitch says:

    Good Gravy what am I listening too on the radio. One station has Shilner telling me the jays will win 125 games, making them the greatest team of ALL time and on the other, I keep hearing references to strip clubs!
    What has happened to radio??

  141. Art says:

    Ha Ha nothing wrong with 3rd Song fridays. I missed that from the morning show. Try to relax and not take your self so seriously.

  142. Cirroc says:

    I’m no Steve Simmons fan but I must say I enjoyed Naylor and Landsberg much more sans Landsberg. Does Landsberg get treated with kid gloves on account of his “mental illness” because he spends the majority of the show being a combative jack ass.

  143. Art says:

    Yeah my friend told me Landsberg was off so I tuned in. I was very disapointed when I heard Simmons was his replacement.

    They are both brutal. I feel sorry for Naylor. I still think he’s boring but he’s not unlikeable like the other 2.

  144. Another Steve says:

    I was a regular reader of Naylor when he was with the Globe & Mail.
    I think he’s a very good writer, very professional, but his “on-air” persona is dull. Always has been dull, always will be dull, can’t change that. He knows how to present a “story” and his opinions are generally well thought out – it’s just his delivery. What he needs is a partner who is upbeat, naturally gregarious, an opposite that will provide balance to the show. And that’s not Lansburg, perhaps a better fit would be the little quirky guy, Cauz.

    Lansberg comes across as a condescending, boor.
    Not sure if he works on that kind of image or if he comes by it naturally.
    Disliked him when he started on SportsDesk, and as such, never watched OTR.
    Don’t like listening to him, don’t like watching him. His opinions, rants and tangents, often reveal a truly shallow man.

    Regardless, what I’ve come to learn from TSN radio is I have no time for Naylor or Lansberg.

    When I’m listening to a radio show, I expect to be informed and entertained.
    I get neither from either of Toronto’s sports radio morning shows.

    As for Simmons, yeah, I’ve got no use for him either; he’s another station changer for me. I stopped reading him decades ago. And I cringe whenever I hear his voice. But have to give credit where credit is due, he’s been around the sports scene for 30+ years. So clearly more people like him than dislike him.

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