Blue Jays Silence On Darvish Due To Embarassment?

Blue Jays Silence On Darvish Due To Embarassment?

By TSM

Let’s do a little bit of a review shall we?

NY Post tells us that the the Jays are going to win the Yu Darvish sweepstakes.

Hysteria breaks out, a light is shined on Jays nation, which appears to be much larger than 2 or 3 times the average size of a crowd at the dome.

Reality sets in and the Texas Rangers are victorious.

The Blue Jays remain in their cone of silence, refusing to admit that they even submitted a bid.

The Toronto Star’s respected baseball writer states that he’s told the Jays bid was above $50m; which if true is a very respectful bid and one that the Jays should be proud of and Blue Jays fans extremely excited by.

The National Posts Bruce Arthur doesn’t necessary contradict Griffin, but rather suggests surprise.

Then, Buster Olney took to twitter today (@Buster_ESPN):

“Educated guess: The bidding on Yu Darvish was not close. Nobody, including Toronto, was within country miles of the Rangers’ $51.7m bid.”
“I suspect Jays have watched frenzy over their allegedly rabid interest in Darvish with astonishment. They were in, but not close, I believe”

Jeff Blair said on the radio today that he thought the Jays bid was closer to the $40m mark, again, nothing to be embarrassed about, and again a positive development for Jays fans.

Then however, my inboxes began to fill up with notes from respected MSMers telling me that the Blair number was excessively high, let alone the Griffin number and that the Jays number was no where near either number.

So, perhaps the reason the Jays are being so quiet is that the truth would actually hurt the public perception. If the number is as low as some are saying, they certainly wouldn’t want the fans to know that they barely dipped their toe into the pool would they? Is it possible that the reason they are being so quiet isn’t as Alex suggested, to tip other teams as to what money they have to play with, but rather it’s because they know if the truth were to emerge they would be ripped to no end.

The funny thing about stories like these is that eventually the truth comes out. It always does. The Jays won’t admit it, but enough well placed sources will and that will be that.

John Lott has an interesting read on a veteran reporter who happened to have the light shined on him when he blogged that the Jays were going to be the winning bidder as well. How did that turn out?:

““I screwed up. My Blue Jays sources screwed up,” he wrote on his blog, graymatter11.com.”

Oooops.

Give credit for admitting a mistake. Take a big man to do that.

Thanks to Dowbiggin for finding this quote from 8 mile Brady:

““There’s NOTHING the Blue Jays could do in 2012 to finish in the Top 6 among records. That’s not me being pessimistic, that’s being realistic. They’ll have a worse record than the Yankees, Red Sox, Tigers, Angels, Rangers, and probably the Rays and possibly one other team.”

Well, he works for Rogers, no one will accuse ol 8 mile of being a homer now will they. Why bother even playing the season????

I love the topic that Damien Cox starts his column with tonight:

“First things first. Give the kid No. 13.

That’s the number Nazem Kadri wears proudly and successfully with the AHL Marlies, and rather than again give him No. 43, like a reserve linebacker on this his fifth promotion to the Maple Leafs, give him Mats Sundin’s old number and make him feel as though the club really wants him to be a star.

Disrespect to Sundin? Not even close. That number will never be retired, just honoured. If it was okay for Mark Osborne to wear Borje Salming’s No. 21 and if it’s okay for Colby Armstrong to wear Teeder Kennedy’s No. 9 and if it’s okay for Cody Franson to wear the No. 4 that once adorned the backs of both Red Kelly and Hap Day when they were Leafs, then giving Kadri No. 13 is no insult to Sundin 3 ½ years after he left town.”

I think he is bang on. If the numbers don’t get retired, but rather honored, why not give him the number he wears in the minors?

I can’t wait to read some of the responses to that!

Happy Thursday!

TSM

COMMENTS

WORDPRESS: 31
  • comment-avatar

    I really, really don’t think they’re hiding the number due to embarrassment. I mean, they’ve given plenty of hints they don’t want to do a huge deal for Fielder, right? They’re not hiding that.

    So if they weren’t in on Darvish, I think they would have given clearer hints right off the top.

    Plus, I don’t believe there would be outrage if the Jays acknowledged they didn’t bid that much on this particular player.

    I think fans want to see them spend money, but don’t need it to have been on Darvish.

    I mean it’s hard to REALLY blame them for not wanting to go all in on a pitcher who hasn’t thrown an MLB pitch. As much as we would have loved to see a bold move like that, I think we get that choice. (Even the Yanks and BoSox seemed to find it too risky). It’s a damn ballsy move. I think that’s why there was so much excitement when it seemed like it might happen.

    AA has been completely silent on every move so far. Him being silent on this doesn’t break from the norm.

  • comment-avatar

    As for the 8 Mile comment – way too premature. Competing DEFINITELY won’t be easy or likely, but it’s Dec 22nd. The Jays have made one real move. One!

    Might make sense to wait until we actually know what the 2012 roster will be before writing off the season! And Blair and Wilner seem to believe there is likely to be lots of trade activity to come.

    Plus, a great deal of it hinges on whether there will be a second wild card in 2012. If you look back through the standings, that could have been had most years with around 90 wins. Won’t be easy for the Jays to make up 9ish games, but if they make a couple big deals I’d say it’s possible to push that number (Plus, they’re already improved with full seasons of Lawrie/Rasmus/Johnson/Santos over Nix/Patterson/Hill/Francisco).

    Don’t get me wrong, it isn’t likely. But they have the prospects to pull off some big deals if they choose. Can’t judge things yet.

  • comment-avatar

    I will say one negative though – the Darvish bid was exciting because it seemed to signal that Rogers was going to throw it financial weight behind the team…

    Combined with the good things AA has done, that would be a really thrilling proposition to say the least.

    But if their bid really was a dud? We’re right back to hoping and wondering if Rogers will really put their money where their mouth is.

  • comment-avatar
    declan 9 years ago

    How about he make the club on merit before anyone starts talking about adorning the most successful Leaf ever # (statistically). If he plays the selfish brand of hockey he’s been well known to play and is sent back down, what happens then? That’s a silly post from Cox.

    I hope for kadri he’s quit some of the other off-ice bad habits he’s been known to have, as well.

  • comment-avatar
    itchy butt 9 years ago

    OK, how many other teams have revealed a) that they bid, and b) how much they bid?

  • comment-avatar

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  • comment-avatar
    Gerry 9 years ago

    The whole Darvish thing did get the city talking Blue Jays so that is a positive. Have to believe major league teams knew the winning bid would be around $50 million based on previous experiences with Dice K etc… Based on that, given the Jays spoke of the interest in Darvish leading up to this they should have been prepared to bid in the $50Million range. If indeed their bid was in the $40Mill range, then it is hard not to believe the Jays used this for P.R. purposes.

    I don’t think spending $50mill plus a contract would have been a wise investment for this team. Would much rather see the team make an offer on Fielder who at age 27 has shown to be a Blue Chip product. One can only wonder how his bat in the lineup would help Jose Bautista.

  • comment-avatar
    mike (in boston) 9 years ago

    is there a worse interview than Paul Godfrey? Hayes had him on recently and every answer just dripped with condescension.
    .

    Credit to Blair for his AA interview on PTS. He asked the tough questions, including whether AA believed the Jays could compete to win the division with their current payroll. The fact that AA said “absolutely” can be interpreted in many ways, one of which is that the payroll will not be increasing this year.
    .

    We can argue about it, but to my mind $40 million is effectively a non-bid. Darvish is better than Dice-K and Dice-K posted $51.

  • comment-avatar
    mike (in boston) 9 years ago

    just listened to Griffin’s interview with Hayes from a day or two ago. He claims that his figure of $50 million comes from someone within the Jays organization. So, the obvious question that needs to be asked is: are the Jays using Griffin to spin the Darvish fallout? If they are lying to control the story then this really is AA’s JP Riccardi “it’s not a lie if we know the truth” moment.

    p.s. – i’ve really enjoyed reading the comments on this story here. the balance between criticism and support of the current regime has been fun to follow. the discussion on many Jays blogs is unreadable right now.

  • comment-avatar

    Mike in Btown, wondering what specfic don’t you like about the Jays blogs?

    I personally feel most of them tend to be mirrors of Wilner, who think AA is some jedi who can’t do no wrong and is so above everybody that anybody who can’t see that is just an lowbrow common fan.

  • comment-avatar

    Let’s all be honest, a 40m bid is the same as a 4m bid when you know 50m was the mark a few years ago, a bullshit offer to say you made one.

    As for AA and his silence, I’m certain that if they ever do go big for someone and lose, we’ll hear endlessly how close they were and what they were prepared to do.

    Like all guys selling hope, silence is golden, especially when it suits them…

  • comment-avatar
    Mike V 9 years ago

    $40 million is nowhere near the same as $4 million.. People keep bringing up the Dice-K posting as proof that you needed to bid more than $51.1M but keep in mind that Boston’s bid was completely astronomical in terms of expectations going in, they overpaid considerably since no other team was close and Dice ended up being nowhere near as good to justify the price. Also, if Dice-K was really the floor, why did the winning bid only beat it by a mere 1%. If they are apples to apples, Darvish is projected to be more than 1% better so why wasn’t the winning bid much more? Continuing this logic, it could be argued that even Texas was trying to lowball too but just did it higher.

    A blind bid is just that, blind. They are a lot of things to consider and it’s not as simple as drawing a linear line from one outlier event 5 years ago.

  • comment-avatar

    An outlier?? Really?? Is there really such a thing in MLB contracts?? Ever seen costs or salaries drop over a few years?? If so tell me when.

    TSM says everyone on the inside of MLB will eventually know who bid what, and if AA is so highly respected and connected as he apparently is, knows it’ll come out too

    And yes, 4m and 40m are the same number in this case because neither would be accepted, neither was market value ( whatever that means) and neither was a serious bid from AA and Rogers for 1 unproven guy…

  • comment-avatar
    Mike V 9 years ago

    Yes really. 1 comparable posting from 2006 that was completely insane at the time is an outlier. The second highest posting before Darvish was barely half that at $26 million.

    And it has happened before, with A-Rod. No one surpassed his annaul salary for 7 years and the person to beat the record was himself.

    That this posting would be over $51.1 was far from a foregone conclusion two weeks ago. To pretend otherwise or that $40M was a throwaway amount is revionist history.

  • comment-avatar

    “Let’s all be honest, a 40m bid is the same as a 4m bid when you know 50m was the mark a few years ago, a bullshit offer to say you made one. ‘

    This is really inaccurate. You might recall that Dice-K has been an unmitigated disaster at this point (considering his price tag). There was PLENTY of speculation that the posting fee would be less than Dice-K’s at prior to the bidding deadline.

    Plus, is nobody was close to Texas’ offer, then clearly the Jays weren’t the only team that though Yu might be had for under Dice K’s mark.

    “As for AA and his silence, I’m certain that if they ever do go big for someone and lose, we’ll hear endlessly how close they were and what they were prepared to do. ”

    It’s frustrating the Jays didn’t get Yu, and annoying that it seems a point hasn’t been reached when Rogers will spend, but this is really silly and off the mark.

    Please find an example of AA talking about bidding on any free agent ever. Close or not. Hasn’t happened.

  • comment-avatar

    “So, the obvious question that needs to be asked is: are the Jays using Griffin to spin the Darvish fallout? ”

    I think it’s clear that they’re not giving any information to anyone, so reporters are hearing wildly different things.

    I mean, really – there is no need to spin that they bid 40 or even 20 million on Yu Darvish. There are not many teams that would be interested in spending 125 million on an unknown. This isn’t like they decided not to re-sign Halladay or Bautista or something.

    Not posting 50 million for this guy is an entirely defensible position for any team (look at the Yankees and Red Sox). Nothing to spin in that regard.

    The issue isn’t ‘why didn’t we get Darvish’? He’s just one player. And a massive question mark at that. It’s when is Rogers going to let AA work with a larger payroll.

  • comment-avatar

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  • comment-avatar

    I actually have no problem with them bidding low, I wouldn’t have bid at all, the history of there deals is iffy at best, and despit needing a #1 arm, this is just too much for a guy who has never seen MLB hitting. There are a dozen holes to fill, and one unproven arm would be a poor choice.

  • comment-avatar

    Chef Mike – exactly. It would have been really fun, but this offseason isn’t ‘Yu or bust’. That’s why the idea that they’re hiding or spinning a low bid to avoid looking bad doesn’t make sense. Even if they bid nothing, it’s hard to really fault them on this one.

    The excitement was – ‘wow, if Rogers is going to drop a ton of cash on this crazy acquisition, times have officially changed!!’

    So, as I said, the real question shouldn’t be ‘tell us how much you bid on Yu’, it should be ‘when is Rogers going to invest more in payroll?’

  • comment-avatar

    My biggest problem with AA and Rogers is the never ending publicity whoring for doing virtually nothing to improve this team. Somehow, the Jays and AA seem to be in almost conversation about almost every marquee player, but somehow only 1 signing ( i think) has happened, and a B level guy at that.

    These guys need to find 9+ more wins somewhere to be relevant in September, and if you guys see them somewhere in these moves, please educate me.

  • comment-avatar

    “My biggest problem with AA and Rogers is the never ending publicity whoring for doing virtually nothing to improve this team”

    *Massive Eyeroll*

    Please read this article:

    http://blogs.thescore.com/mlb/2011/12/07/a-word-or-two-on-payroll-parameters/

    A TON has been done in the past two years to shape this team. In 2009, the Jays were overpaid, with an aging core and barren of prospects. I know fans aren’t fond of patience, but you can’t just sign a couple free agents (a lot of fans wanted the Jays to make a statement and sign Jason Bay at the time) and hope to have a system that can take on the Rays, Yankees and Red Sox. You have to restructure the whole thing – and that involves improving scouting, improving the farm system and a whole bunch of things that go under the radar of the casual fan.

    You can’t do that overnight, and throwing money at free agents will most often not expedite that (see Orioles, Baltimore).

    There’s been plenty of negative news about Rogers and the Jays this week, and you’re entitled to dislike the restructuring the team has done. But the idea that they’ve ‘done nothing’ is a maddeningly inaccurate, surface level view.

  • comment-avatar

    Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely think Rogers should be spending more on this team. But the progress is there.

  • comment-avatar

    Also – while I think the work to take the Jays from where there were in 09 to now has been excellent, the book is absolutely still out on how they go from here.

    They’ve fixed the system, now lets see if they can make a leap in terms of MLB wins.

    “These guys need to find 9+ more wins somewhere to be relevant in September, and if you guys see them somewhere in these moves, please educate me.”

    It’s Dec 22, and they’ve essentially made one move. Lets see the roster before evaluating.

  • comment-avatar
    Really?Really!Really? 9 years ago

    Unlike AA I’ve been doing some Christmas shopping…and Daniel, I got you
    A LIFE…’cuz you so obviously need to get one

  • comment-avatar

    Ugh. Good one?

    I think Chef Mike is a great/smart commenter, I hope I wasn’t too big a jerk in my responses. 🙂

    Damn Jays get me riled up.

  • comment-avatar
    mike (in boston) 9 years ago

    Daniel: It’s Dec 22, and they’ve essentially made one move. Lets see the roster before evaluating.

    fair enough. but, it’s worth pointing out that the Jays’ biggest off-season needs were a #2/3 starter and a DH/1B/LF, and despite the availability of some impact players on the free agent market, those needs remain unfilled, and many of those players have signed elsewhere.
    .

    AA says that he can get better value via trade, but it’s hard to see how giving up your prospects yields better overall value. i’d rather pay the market rate, and keep my prospects to acquire players that CAN’T be had through free agency.
    .

    free agency is not a panacea, but it’s a legitimate tool to making the playoffs. if you’re not using that tool then you’re making your life way harder.

  • comment-avatar
    mike (in boston) 9 years ago

    ROME Mike in Btown, wondering what specfic don’t you like about the Jays blogs?
    I personally feel most of them tend to be mirrors of Wilner, who think AA is some jedi who can’t do no wrong and is so above everybody that anybody who can’t see that is just an lowbrow common fan.

    my thoughts are along the same line. there is a huge rush to defend all unpopular moves, and to suggest that dissatisfaction is evidence that one doesn’t get AA’s “plan”. there was a similar rush to defend JP’s unpopular moves for a while. it’s understandable that fansites would be pro-team, but i find a lot of the discussion to lack genuine engagement with the opposing viewpoint.

  • comment-avatar

    “fair enough. but, it’s worth pointing out that the Jays’ biggest off-season needs were a #2/3 starter and a DH/1B/LF, and despite the availability of some impact players on the free agent market, those needs remain unfilled, and many of those players have signed elsewhere.”

    Yeah, can’t argue with that. There’s still a lot of time left, but a lot of the obvious targets are being snapped up. Just have to wait and see, really.

    “AA says that he can get better value via trade, but it’s hard to see how giving up your prospects yields better overall value”

    That’s definitely a distinct choice on AA’s part. For what it’s worth, he seems to be emulating the Rangers, who were heavily built through trades. I don’t have a problem with it, but it’s open to criticism definitely. One aspect of it I like, is that you are able to acquire younger players through trades, and have control of them through their prime (late 20s, early 30s). Often free agency pays for the 30+ years at a premium rate (Fielder is an exception here). We also seem to be in a period where teams are arguably overrating the value of prospects in general (http://tinyurl.com/74uzfty) – so may not be a bad time to be in the trading prospects zone.

    “my thoughts are along the same line. there is a huge rush to defend all unpopular moves, and to suggest that dissatisfaction is evidence that one doesn’t get AA’s “plan”

    Man, I dunno. All the Jays blogs I’ve been reading lately are just one big Rogers hatefest, and are totally impatient with AA (in the comments at least).

    I don’t think there’s a rush to defend unpopular moves… But there have been a lot of moves made that involve patience, and a good understanding of some of the nerdier, more obscure aspects of things like the draft compensation system etc (that casual fans understandably don’t really give a damn about).

    You and others may understand this approach perfectly well, and simply not like it. I don’t think that’s an issue – certainly a respectable opinion. But I think a lot of people see that the team went from 85 to 81 wins and assume, based on that and little else, that the team as a whole is in worse shape. There’s a whole lot of under the radar things to also take into account before assessing (whether your final feelings end up being positive or negative is another matter). I think that may be what comes across as a ‘rush to defend’. (Although yeah, I’m sure there’s plenty out there who will defend everything the team does – like fans of all teams!)

  • comment-avatar
    mike (in boston) 9 years ago

    hey Daniel — exhibit A: (NSFW?)

    http://1bluejaysway.blogspot.com/2011/12/aa-doesnt-do-free-agents.html

    “He doesn’t owe ANY of us a God damn thing let alone an explanation. How he chooses to do his job is none of our concern provided he gets the job done.

    In AA we trust.”

    I completely agree with you that this year’s 81 wins are more meaningful than last year’s 85. But i guess i’m the same boat as Chef Mike: the Jays need to find 9 more wins. I’m willing to be patient, but i’m not willing to pin my hopes for those 9 wins exclusively on internal development + trading prospects. For example, everyone thought Morrow would progress but he did the opposite. You can find +5WAR players in free agency. Why put all your eggs in the development basket? How often are high WAR players traded in-season? To completely eschew free agency as a means for acquiring high end talent seems misguided on AA’s part.

  • comment-avatar

    That’s a real good example of what I was talking about. I understand the team or GM not wanting to go details but how can a fan (or media members) not want to know or push for it. It would be like coming on here and having TSM saying “We don’t need to know about ratings or contract status of hosts… the program director knows what he’s doing” lol.

    The problem with the Jays is that we really don’t know the timeline of what is happening, it seems like it’s just “wait it will happen” I get the argument that even with less wins last season it was a good season for the talent they are building, but that was only said after the fact. Is the same scenerio this season? When do we start looking for an upward trend in wins? Even the Raptors the fans seem to know what’s going on (this season will be a waste) But for the Jays, are we on the cusp of something or is it still a couple of season away (which ironically has been said for a couple of seasons already)

    What I think what made Jays fans flip out this season is that last offseason we heard we are not going after any FA because there no quality worthy FA, and fans on the most part accepted that. This offseason the obvious quality players out there but now we are hearing other excuses like attendance and payroll and not wanting to give long tenure. Fans are starting to think, wait a second, what scenerio are you going to spend.

    By the way, the latest Wilner crazy statement was that it’s good not to go after Beltran because the Cards give him a no-trade and you don’t want to do that. Now remember Beltran only signed for a couple of seasons, so it’s not like the Cards (or anybody) would have been stuck with him for long if it doesn’t work out, so a No-trade really makes no difference either way. Now everybody I read (even the comment sections on Jays blogs) mocked Wilner for that statement, but this sort of excuses is what I think is wearing thin on the fans. Instead of just saying he doesn’t want to play here, or we don’t think he’s worth the money. The jays apologists give this BS excuse that doesn’t even make any sense.

  • comment-avatar

    Boy, you fellers sure like this thread…

    Let me wrap up my TSM holiday reading with this thought… To Daniel, the Mikes et al, I admire your passion…I don’t share it, but I do admire it.

    Let a guy who was sitting in right field when Joe “touched ’em all” back in the day share this…remember you are the 1% of fans who care about the back story of that new scout in Omaha and that prospect from San Jose State. You guys know how he purged players, deadwood scouts and payroll to clean up the shitpile he was apparently left with….

    BUT……the other 99% of us just don’t care anymore…

    -It’s 18 years later, there’s not been a sniff of success since, a generation of failure. Before you say it, YES, it is a surface analysis, but that’s what the other 99% of us see.

    -we see that 81 wins last year is less than 85 the year before, and we don’t care that the 81 were “better” wins, we only see another last year when we were out of it by the All Star game.

    -we see another year without any name free agents in BJ uniforms, and we don’t care that most FA signings are breakeven at best, we just want to see a few stars in our uniforms instead of pinstripes.

    -we’ve heard for a DECADE about how poor they are, and how they can’t compete in the AL East, despite Rogers making billions in profits. For the record, according to Forbes Magazine, Yankee Global Enterprises had gross sales of $1.8B in 2010, meanwhile, Rogers made $3.1B in PROFIT. They choose not to compete, they have different corporate goals, it’s not a lack of money, to claim otherwise is simply a lie.

    -we are told they can’t spend with the AL East for FA’s (see above) but they are quite happy to charge you more when the real stars come to town. The blatant hypocrisy aside, when you have a 1/2 full park, blackmailing me to see real players is hardly a reason to get off my couch.

    -Toronto is the biggest market in Canada and the 5th biggest in North America, yet the BJ’s are given a smaller budget that 23 other teams in 2011. Money can’t always buy success, but there is something real to the fact that the Yankees have been in the playoffs 10 times in the past 15 years. Yes, another surface analysis, but a vital one to a fan who want to see a relavant game after August 1st…

    – It may AA’s policy to never say/comment on anything that might have a goal/deadline/timeline/$$$ budget in it, that may come back to bite him, but if he wants to engage the other 99%, we need something to look to. His silence is safe, but it’s keeping me and my money fom the ballpark, we’re adults, we can handle the truth, even if we don’t like it.

    Remember, like sports, but love your family…Happy holidays…